Man vs Machine

Which camera works? Where can you buy an adequate laser? And more...

Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Wed May 06, 2009 7:53 pm

Hi Walter,

Thanks for the help I am pretty close to bringing this project to and end now. I am waiting patiently for the P7 :roll:

WalterMo wrote:By the way: Driving a relay with 12V and a current of about 0.1A isn't an environmental sin.


I am against global warming but in the earlier post when I said I hate heat it is eventually going to destroy the entire universe I was refering to the entropy of the universe and the heat death: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

Any small part I can do to save the universe I will surely do it.

I have a weird sense of humor sometimes :oops:

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Wed May 06, 2009 10:49 pm

Hi,

I thought I would explain how my controller works up till now. It is designed and programed to make planeless scanning quick and easy. There are only four buttons although there are more in the picture and will be removed. From left to right: Up, direction, autoscan, down. The up and down buttons turn the laser on and quickly moves the laser up or down while they are pressed (like a joystick). After you release the buttons the laser will wait 30 seconds to turn off. This is so you can see where you last aimed the laser and also gives you time to quickly set the camera parameters and laser focus to give you a thin line. I use these to setup camera then dial in a start position. When I am satisfied with a start position I click the autoscan button. This will start a scan with the direction set by the direction button and with the speed set by the trimpot. this will go on forever until the autoscan button is click again at which time the laser is turned off and the laser returns to the exact postion it was in when you pressed the autoscan button. So you can use this completely without the control of David But if you connect it to the computer you can quickly set a start point using the up and down buttons and after you get a good start point when you click David's start button it will start the autoscan. When you click David's pause button the laser will turn off and return to the starting point. Here is my planeless scanning workflow:

1. Frame the object to take maximize pixel coverage and focus camera.
2. Use controller's UP and DOWN buttons to put the laser on the object in the camera view. Now set camera parameters and laser focus for a thin line.
3. Insert calibration corner as near to the object as possible and calibrate.
4. Use UP and Down buttons to find good starting point (very close to object). No need to waste time waiting for laser to get where it is going.
5.This is a test run and there are wo options here. You can press the autoscan button and adjust the trimpot for a nice slow scan or press David's start button and adjust trimpot. Once a satisfactory speed is obtained simply click the autoscan button again or click on David's pause button and erase the scan and set back to reference. after pause or the autoscan is pressed the laser will always accurately return to the start position.
6.Press David's start button to do a reference scan and when the laser is out of view of the camera press David's pause button (laser returns to start) We now have a reference scan
7. Remove the calibration corner.
8. Press David's start button and we are scanning without planes :!: Whenever you hit pause the laser will return back to start and you can scan as many angles as you want. No need to wait for a scan to complete you can abort any time and do over.

I think I will add another trimpot so the speed of the UP and DOWN buttons are adjustable. That way you could do a realtime joystick controlled scan as slow or as fast as you want. :wink:

Any suggestions?

P.S Yes, It would be extremely simple to add a turntable and I might do that soon.

thanks,

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Ordibble Plop » Fri May 08, 2009 3:28 am

Bongobat wrote: I was going to start right off with the P7 and it's driver http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330 but after I purchased the driver it go some bad reviews: only puts out 2 A and maybe overheating and cuts the current. If this driver doesnt work out I have already at hand an LM350T and was thinking I could use that like the LM317T to drive the P7.


Hi Greg

I also ordered this driver and received mine with the P7 today (ordered April 16). And then saw the bad reviews on DX. The driver I received though is not identical to the picture on DX - at first glance it looks similar (same color PCB, pink and white wires, the large, black 600V component) but the layout is quite different and it is missing the two 470 uF capacitors that were mentioned on the driver page ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330 )

Perhaps they have re-designed it to work better but I don't know enough about the componentry to make an educated guess so I'm reluctant to plug the P7 into it. Maybe DX just sent me the wrong part but it doesn't seem to match anything else on their site. I'll try and get some pictures and maybe put them up on DX or maybe you have yours by now and know what is going on?

Out of interest, does anyone know what LED lenses are made of? The surface of the lens on the P7 has a soft, rubbery feel to it, which sort of surprised me.

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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Fri May 08, 2009 11:19 am

Hi Dave,

Im jealous, I ordered my p7 and that driver on april 12. The driver came last week and looks just like the one pictured on DX site. The driver has the 2 capacitors and the grounded down chips as people in the DX forums have mentioned :? My P7 has not even been shipped yet and the site says it is backordered :cry:

Please try to get those pictures as I am curious about what is going on. There should be a way to check the current draw somehow? Maybe they did redesign a better driver and you are all set. When I get my p7 I will put together the lm350t driver and test it. It will just be Walter's design with a 0.47 ohm resistor for R2 which should give me 2.6 A but even if DX sent it today it will problaby take 2 weeks to get here.

Sorry but I dont know what the lens is made of either.

Patiently waiting,

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Ordibble Plop » Fri May 08, 2009 11:48 pm

Hi Greg

It sounds like DX don't have a very egalitarian method of fulfilling back orders. I can't exactly recall now, but I thought the LED was listed as in stock when I ordered. I got the P7 with heatsink attached. Did you order that one or the bare emitter?

Here are photos of the P7 'driver' I was sent. I double-checked my order and the bubble wrap baggy it came in definitely has the same SKU code number as the one shown on their website. And it doesn't look like bits have just been left off. I guess the best thing is to contact DX's support to find out for sure.

As with others, the ICs have had their serial numbers ground off.

Dave
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Sat May 09, 2009 12:10 am

Hi Dave,

The LED i ordered was with the heatsink but DX is notorious for not doing anything that makes sense. My driver does not look like yours but I think what they did is replace the 10V 470 uF caps with smds. Maybe this improved and fixed the problems it was having :?: I would let DX know that you spotted a difference maybe they can explain what is going on.

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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Ordibble Plop » Sun May 10, 2009 12:09 am

Hi Greg

DX support isn't available over the weekend but in the meantime I created a thread on the product page.

I got a reply from the person who noted the problem with the 470 uF caps. He said:

"I got one of those [referring to my driver] after I complained about my first defective one. It works well! However, I measured 2.2A of output current, not 2.8A. I changed mine to 2.65 A output, although who knows if that will be OK since the part numbers were sanded off. For $4.70, who cares if it blows up. "

It sounds OK, so maybe if you complain about the driver as unfit for purpose, DX will send one of the 'new' type when they finally ship your P7.

Dave
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Sun May 10, 2009 1:27 am

Hi Dave,

Thanks for looking into that. I just put in a ticket on it so maybe I will hear something. I hope it doesnt mess up my P7 order somehow.

I havent had really bad experience with DX and never complained about anything until now. The most annoying is the P7 was in stock when I ordered and actually said it was shipped but about a week later it says the driver was shipped but the p7 is backordered then it went to packaging for a week then it was suppose to be in on the 9th and currently my status is back to processing. I have no idea when or if they will ever send it :? Oh well

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:18 pm

Hi,

Here I used the new P7 powered slide projector to scan a 29 mm long seedpod. It made a good stand in to test resolution for an insect. So I think I can get pretty good detail when I finally get up the nerve to scan a bug. :|

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby joecnc2006 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:47 pm

Can you post some detail pictures of the projector and setup?
Joe

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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:55 pm

Hi Joe,

I plan on doing a video sometime soon but dont know exactly when. The projector is the same I was using before I just took off the Q5 and put the P7 LED in it's place on the same heatsink. The driver I am using is based on the LM350 in current regulation cofiguration: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1001&start=60#p6760 I did not use R1 though because I lost amperage for somereason and R2 is 0.47 ohm 10 watt resistor. It gives 2.5 A and it is swtiched via the atmega8 controller by the IRF540. I use the 12 V rail of a ATX computer power supply for everything.

Here is an old picture of the projector and controller: viewtopic.php?p=6409#p6409 The controller is much smaller now though.

Here is A 3D PDF of the projector: download/file.php?id=1125 Look the sam except the LED is now an SSC P7

thanks,

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:56 am

Hi,

I scanned an insect. A wasp that I found dead in a light fixture made a good test subject. I tried my best to rehydrate him. I painted him matte white with cheap spray paint. and attempted to pin him. Well the paint ran and caked a little so I loss detail on the body. As this was a quick test I did not take much care. :oops: I could have focused better and maximized pixels better and taken more time in alignment and scan time was way too fast, but I was impatient to see what I could get. I tooka a good long time getting his wings parallel and fusion decided to put holes in them and generally muck them up. So back to the drawing board but I think I can get good results with a little practice and patience.

Greg
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Postby hal » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:42 pm

Hi Greg,
nice result :shock: . Is incredible the detail of the legs. They are so thin and so detailed.
I think that with just with a little more care, you can obtain a perfect scan of an insects, and open the David's doors on the Entomology horizons.
have you tried to coat it with only talcum? for my Fly it was quite covering.
Compliments and bye,
Mattia
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby Bongobat » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:39 am

Hi Mattia,

I did not try the talcom but my main problem was my patience. I tried pining him then painting him and when I tried spray painting him he would spin around. This caused too much paint in one area and not enough in others. Also I am using a normal 90 degree corner and a 6 mm pattern and it was hard to turn him as much as I wanted. He wasnt close enough to the corner and some scans were out of focus so I need to redesign something there too. Maybe a small turntable and a window setup? This really was just a test to see if it was worth putting more effort into it. I learned some things for next time though. :wink:

Greg
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Re: Man vs Machine

Postby BJ64 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:03 pm

I think your scans are fantastic, Bongo.

Coming from a different angle, what about coating the insect in charcoal powder, and using the 'thin white line' technique?

I realise that an insect is an incredibly small and delicate object to scan. Pinning it would be difficult, because if anything moves while trying to change the position for the next scan, the whole thing is more or less stuffed. What about coating it in super glue a-la CSI-Miami style? i.e. make up a little chamber and heat some super-glue inside it. Or, perhaps hit it with some clear 2-Pak finishing coat out of an air-brush?

I'm sure there's a few more ideas around - would be good to find one that works, huh?

BJ :)
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