Dear DAVID Community,

As you are probably aware, the entire DAVID company, team and product range has been integrated into HP Inc.
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David vs NextEngine

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David vs NextEngine

Postby hal » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:02 pm

DAVID vs NEXT ENGINE

:D Hello dear David's users and Next Engine scanner's users. The time for a comparison has came! :D

The idea showed in this chapter is: get a better idea and visual impression of "How David Laser Scanner can do" and "How the others 3D laser scanner can do".
Here, we write about the very diffuse and very versatile 3D Desktop scanner Next Engine, because it is, probably, one of the most popular scanner for who want to do a 3D scan by yourself.
This scanner have many points of power, one is the scan speed and its autonomy to do the main part of the scanning work.
But you can read specifications and with more details soon, in a message with a presentetion of this portable 3D scanner.

First of all, I must introduce the theme of this comparison and how is conceived (criticism and suggestions are welcome).
For a better comparison, we have choosen a list (modificable and updatable) of objects that must be scanned from the both scanners and that we can find and share
without too much problem (common object and/or easy to find).
We will start with a very common object in the world: money! expecially the little Penny coin and the Quarter coin.
With these objects we can see how is possible to do with the two different scanners, scanning small objects with very small details.
For the first and for all the others messages with a "card of comparison", will be specify the details about the scanning process.

For a better result, was chosen the same graphic look for every chart: with the same page setup, views of the 3D objects and same shader and light, we can well read and immediatly see the difference between the two scan results.
Now the first purpose is compare the 3D survey and check the shape accuracy of the meshes, at now, the textures are not so important.

Mr. Aaron Craft offer his precious time and his professionality to share with us his knowledge and his scan result done with his Next Engine scanner.
I want to express my gratitude to Aaron for his kindness to do this comparison work :D .
And my gratitude is for Greg, too. Thank you for your precious sharing of the coins scans :D .

This is an open thread, so everyone can share own knowledge, experience, opinions and criticism.
Please, help us to do a good comparison discussion and, why not, maybe start others chapters, in the forum, for every 3D scanners that you want to compare with David.

Soon some images, please be patient :wink: .Stay tuned on "David vs NextEngine"!

DLSvsNE_Logo.jpg
The logo of the non competitive "competition".
Last edited by hal on Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:44 pm

The purpose of this project is not to discredit or bash any particular product or name, but simply to describe the different scanning abilities of two systems that are available on the market today.

As Mattia stated, I am Aaron and I will be detailing the NextEngine scanning system. I hope that this will be a fun joint effort for all who wish to participate.

Gentlemen (and ladies!) Start Your Lasers !

I will start by giving a brief description of the NextEngine scanner as to familiarize those who don't know this system.

Let me begin by saying that this system is designed for ease of use. It can be set up on a desk top in a few minutes, and scanning is possible with normal room light. Anyone can have it set up and scanning with good results in a few hours. As you will soon see, to keep things to a certain degree of simplicity, the scanning ability of the unit cannot be “tuned” to scan specific objects at the same level that the David system can.

The NextEngine scanner is an all-in-one unit. This means that the single unit contains the camera, lasers, lights and motors to complete the process. The software is downloaded to your PC via the Internet, and the unit is connected with a USB cable. There is a turntable that is provided which plugs into the front of the unit. This is used when doing “bracket” or 360 deg. scans. It is motorized and will spin the object automatically. I never use this, as all of the objects I scan will be run on a CNC router. I usually only need a good “face” scan of the object. Looks like I will finally get a chance to test it out.

The software provides a few adjustable parameters for optimizing the scan to the object. This is where the system starts to become limited.

You have two different scanning ranges, Macro and Wide. With the macro setting, the scanner is placed about 9in. or 230mm away from the object, and standard is 17in. or 430mm.
I have attached a picture of the settings screen so you can see what your options are.

This to tease,
More soon!

Aaron
ScanScreen copy.jpg
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby Hervé » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:46 am

for a real life comparison.. I think only full 360° scanned objects should be done...

I will carefully follow this thread.... yes yes... :mrgreen: :D

Excellent idea...

h.
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David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:49 am

If you look at the bottom right of the screen shot in the previous post, you will see a distance gauge. I can only get good scans at the “max” or “center”setting. I don't know why. Any closer and the object starts to go out of focus. Once a setting is established, the focus is “locked”. The unit then has to be moved to obtain good focus from there.
They don't give a manual with the product. They have some video tutorials that don't get very specific about the different settings, so you are kind of left with some trial and error. After some tinkering with the settings, hit scan, and wait. The actual scanning takes about a minute and a half to two minutes. After the scan it takes about another one to two minutes to process the mesh, depending on the settings.

ScanScreen2.jpg


The screen above is what you will enjoy for the next few minutes. The actual scan time will vary depending on the resolution chosen. Personally, I like to watch this...

PIC-0386.jpg


Yes! Four laser beams!

When finished, you will see your scan. No real-time preview with this system.
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:52 am

Another picture.
ObjectTextured.jpg

More details soon,
must go to work!!

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Postby hal » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:56 pm

Hello,

It's time to show some images... :wink:
Here below, you can see the two first "Cards of Comparison ", just a test on two coins: a Penny and a Quarter of Dollar.
As we clearly seen, seems that David has a better results with small objects.
This is easy to understood if we read well the Aaron text:

AaronCraft wrote:Any closer and the object starts to go out of focus. Once a setting is established, the focus is “locked”


This means that NextEngine has a limit to see objects too much near its camera. A focus limitation that we don't have with David, because we can easily handle the camera and its parameters, as well.
However NextEngine is more simple to use and it is ready every time for scanning, instead with David, we must calibrate it every time (if we change the camera and panels position).

Now, some info about Greg's work of scan. David's configuration and set up could be very different form user to an other user, so some infos about the used setup can be useful... NextEngine, instead, is a "ready to use" machine, and need less work before scanning from the user.

Greg configuration for David:
Camera: Phillips SPC900NC CCD webcam
Resolution: 640 x 480 pixels
Scanner line: Accura Portable Projector with Cree XRE Q5 retrofit and a razor blade slide.
Stepper Motor: Mineba EM-257
Worm Drive: Window Roller Mechanism from a 1995 Hyndai Sonata

Scan Paramaters:
Scans were performed seperately on each side of coin.
A normal 6mm scale calibration printout was used and was framed to fill the screen.
A normal 90 corner was used to scan.
The coins were painted with ColorPlace interior/exterior spray paint from walmart - cheap matte white general purpose paint.
The distance from coin to camera was 38mm or 1.5 inch
Each seperate scan (side of coin) took approximately 3 minutes


It's all for now. Soon (I hope) others "Cards of Comparison " for your cards collection! :wink:

Greetings to all,
Mattia
Attachments
DLSvsNE_Penny.jpg
Comparison of a two scans of a Penny.
DLSvsNE_Quarter.jpg
Comparison of a two scans of a Quarter of Dollar.
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David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:11 am

The two coins I scanned with the NextEngine scanner are actually four. Two pennies, two quarters, one front and one back of each. I did this both to save time, and to use as much of the camview as possible. ( something I learned in this forum ) The scanner seems to get the same quality throughout the viewing area unless there is a lot of relief that blocks camview. With the coins being relatively flat I could scan them all at once without degradation of detail in the upper or lower coins. As you can see, there was not a lot of detail to be lost anyway. This level of scanning is not what the unit was designed for. It was intended more for rapid prototyping and reverse engineering. At my place of work, I use the machine to produce 3D models of carvings that can be run on a CNC router. I make a clay sculpt and scan the clay.
It is much faster than carving the original in wood. Some hand work is necessary to complete the carvings and get rid of tool marks. My avatar is a photo of a carving that I did with the use of the NextEngine scanner. Fourteen of these were made in two weeks time! There is no way I could have done this without the scanner.
Back to coins!
It took a total of thirty minutes to get the scan. This includes getting the unit out of the box! The scan takes about five minutes including the time to process the mesh and generate textures.

ObjectSolid1.jpg


The scans were done with the following settings:
precision = Macro
speed = Standard
surface = Light
finish = Matte
triangle size = .005in or .127mm
smoothing = 1
at a distance of 7in or 177.8mm

Coins painted with a flat white spray primer, (Rust-oleum Painter's Touch)


You can look at the photo of the scan screen I posted earlier to see how these settings apply.

Aaron
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby Hervé » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:33 am

well well... so how does Nextengine scanned the fork(?) to show HD module at their site... :?:
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David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:46 am

The High Definition unit was not available when we purchased. If it was I would have it.

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New Comparison

Postby hal » Sun May 10, 2009 10:43 pm

Hello,
it's time to scan some fruit! :D
Here tested a scan comparison of banana fruit, a very common object, easy to get.

Scans with DAVID: Scanned WITHOUT panels. I've scanned the fruit after a quick coating of its skin with white talcum powder, for a better survey of all the details and to allow David to read fine the dark points and areas on the yellow peel of the banana. I've scanned it in 13 parts. Time required: 25 minutes (scans, alignment and fusion at Poisson value 1024).

Scans with NexEngine: No coating and less number of scans required (more time saved). In the final result, Aaron have missed two little pieces, in the top and at the bottom of the fruit. But if we add this 2 missed scans with the 6 already taken, we have 8 scan, less of mine, so, the result was achieved in less time.
If you wants, Aaron, can add some more infos about his workflow on this object. Thanks Aaron for your precious work and patience. :wink:

I hope that you like this second step of comparison, with a smal/middle-size object.

Criticism and comments are welcome (especially criticism).
Best regards,
Mattia
Attachments
DLSvsNE_Banana Card 1.jpg
Comparison of a common fruit object.
DLSvsNE_Banana Card 2.jpg
Comparison of the noise on the surface and of the different triangulation.
DLSvsNE_Banana Card 3.jpg
The separated scans.
PC: DELL Alienware 17, Intel I7-4710MQ, 32 Gb Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M290X 4GB.
SO: Win 8.1 64Bit.
CAMs: USB 3.0 CMOS B/N (1280x960, 60 fps).
LENS: 12 mm.
PROJECTOR: DAVID SLS1 ACER K11.
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby Eric Lagman » Tue May 12, 2009 9:25 pm

AaronCraft wrote:The High Definition unit was not available when we purchased. If it was I would have it.

Aaron


Aaron just a heads up it looks like they are offering some kind of discount if you have a first generation nextengine scanner. I cant post a link since their page is flash, but I took a screengrab. Read the middle and last paragraph. Its a little confusing with the wording they are using, but it might be worth checking out if you want to upgrade one day. The results on their page look very good as well as some videos I have seen on youtube of scanning a human face. The old version is discontinued and no longer available. I would be interested to see how detailed the new unit gets compared to david.
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby Synapse3D » Mon May 18, 2009 11:06 pm

Dear Mattia,

Didn't you make a mistake talking about the "microwaves"? Seems that they are for the Nextengine scan... The David one is much more homogenous.

Thus, accuracy is much better for the coins and the banana with David wich is a "typical" object size for the NextEngine system.

I am still waiting to receive very soon my David starter kit, so it did not performed scans with it. A read many posts of the forum and i assume that the results with David depend a lot of the know how of the user (you are one of the masters, really nice scans!). But if you have a good imagination building the David hardware system you do not have any limitation! (I was thinking about mounting for example a camera into a binocular microscope to scan really little objects... insects for example).

We performed several scans using high end products scanning systems like the Metris K-Scan and Faro (their costs are really expensive due to the realtime articulated arm that check the spatial position of the laser head) on some of my personal objects (an african statue and an ancient coin). I will scan them with the David system to see the difference as i get it in my hands. Seeing the results on this forum, i have no doubt that the results will be better using David than 70K € systems!

Best regards,

Ben.
Dell T7400 workstation Dual Xeon Quad cores, 16GB RAM, QuadroFX 4600, Dual Dell 23 inches displays, XP Pro x64, David Laser starterkit 2.3.
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Postby hal » Tue May 19, 2009 12:26 pm

Hello Synapse3D,
first of all: great avatar image, very funny :D

About the "micro waves" on the banana scan: they are visible in the David's scan, too, but more little and not so big like in the NextEngine.
The waves in my scans are directly linked to the use of David without panels: until now, they are visible if the speed of the laser isn't slow.
The benefit points of NextEngine machine (the used one here, in this comparison, is an "old" model") are probably its speed and "user friendly" interface, every time ready to use. David need more accuracy to set all the parameters and more time to obtain good results.

Synapse3D wrote: I am still waiting to receive very soon my David starter kit, so it did not performed scans with it. A read many posts of the forum and i assume that the results with David depend a lot of the know how of the user (you are one of the masters, really nice scans!). But if you have a good imagination building the David hardware system you do not have any limitation! (I was thinking about mounting for example a camera into a binocular microscope to scan really little objects... insects for example).


Yes, the only limit of David is your imagination and your willingness (economical and of time). For scanning a very small insects, the main problem is the laser: is hard to obtain a line quite thin for this purpose :roll:

Synapse3D wrote: We performed several scans using high end products scanning systems like the Metris K-Scan and Faro (their costs are really expensive due to the realtime articulated arm that check the spatial position of the laser head) on some of my personal objects (an african statue and an ancient coin). I will scan them with the David system to see the difference as i get it in my hands. Seeing the results on this forum, i have no doubt that the results will be better using David than 70K € systems.


Interesting... a comparison with this expensive and professional machines can be simply great!! :D
You can do a comparison with 70K € machine and with the Starter Kit, and me, on the same (or similar) object, with David + my "expencise" hardware. We can start, when you are ready, an other thread of comparison.

Best Regards,
Mattia
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby ronzzkee » Tue May 19, 2009 2:21 pm

hal wrote:DAVID vs NEXT ENGINE

:D Hello dear David's users and Next Engine scanner's users. The time for a comparison has came! :D

The idea showed in this chapter is: get a better idea and visual impression of "How David Laser Scanner can do" and "How the others 3D laser scanner can do".
Here, we write about the very diffuse and very versatile 3D Desktop scanner Next Engine, because it is, probably, one of the most popular scanner for who want to do a 3D scan by yourself.
This scanner have many points of power, one is the scan speed and its autonomy to do the main part of the scanning work.
But you can read specifications and with more details soon, in a message with a presentetion of this portable 3D scanner.

First of all, I must introduce the theme of this comparison and how is conceived (criticism and suggestions are welcome).
For a better comparison, we have choosen a list (modificable and updatable) of objects that must be scanned from the both scanners and that we can find and share
without too much problem (common object and/or easy to find).
We will start with a very common object in the world: money! expecially the little Penny coin and the Quarter coin.
With these objects we can see how is possible to do with the two different scanners, scanning small objects with very small details.
For the first and for all the others messages with a "card of comparison", will be specify the details about the scanning process.

For a better result, was chosen the same graphic look for every chart: with the same page setup, views of the 3D objects and same shader and light, we can well read and immediatly see the difference between the two scan results.
Now the first purpose is compare the 3D survey and check the shape accuracy of the meshes, at now, the textures are not so important.

Mr. Aaron Craft offer his precious time and his professionality to share with us his knowledge and his scan result done with his Next Engine scanner.
I want to express my gratitude to Aaron for his kindness to do this comparison work :D .
And my gratitude is for Greg, too. Thank you for your precious sharing of the coins scans :D .

This is an open thread, so everyone can share own knowledge, experience, opinions and criticism.
Please, help us to do a good comparison discussion and, why not, maybe start others chapters, in the forum, for every 3D scanners that you want to compare with David.

Soon some images, please be patient :wink: .Stay tuned on "David vs NextEngine"!

DLSvsNE_Logo.jpg


for me i much prefer the s NextEngine, i know this the right tool


Here, we write about the very diffuse and very versatile 3D Desktop scanner Next Engine, because it is, probably, one of the most popular scanner for who want to do a 3D scan by yourself.
This scanner have many points of power, one is the scan speed and its autonomy to do the main part of the scanning work.
But you can read specifications and with more details soon, in a message with a presentetion of this portable 3D scanner.

First of all, I must introduce the theme of this comparison and how is conceived (criticism and suggestions are welcome).
For a better comparison, we have choosen a list (modificable and updatable) of objects that must be scanned from the both scanners and that we can find and share
without too much problem (common object and/or easy to find).
We will start with a very common object in the world: money! expecially the little Penny coin and the Quarter coin.
With these objects we can see how is possible to do with the two different scanners, scanning small objects with very small details.
For the first and for all the others messages with a
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Re: David vs NextEngine

Postby AaronCraft » Tue May 19, 2009 8:26 pm

OK,

Sorry for the late reply.

My PC I use for the NextEngine scans has died !! :(

I think that may be the reason for the low quality in the scans. I was having a bit of trouble with the coins, but managed to pull through. The fruit nearly cost me the REST of my hair due to pulling it out when the PC crashed or locked up. I lost all data on the fruit scans three times. I was able to recover some of it which I sent to Mattia. He then, graciously, made the presentation.
Thank You Mattia.
We are currently in the process of replacing my PC, so hopefully this project can continue shortly.

Thank you also Eric. I am checking into exchanging the unit we have. I was not aware of this program until you brought it to my attention.

Aaron
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