Dear DAVID Community,

In 2016, DAVID and this forum have been integrated into HP Inc.
This forum has been read-only since then, and will be switched off by the end of 2019.

To everyone who has contributed here, we thank you for all your work and for the constructive, helpful and friendly atmosphere you have created!
Please continue to discuss on the HP Support Forums.

DAVID 5 Beta

Discussions about latest DAVID developments, beta versions...

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Curiousjeff » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:23 pm

Sven,

I hope I don't sound negative. I greatly look forward to improvements in David, but as a user, I need to see the improvements (quality /work flow) useful in my day to day work.

The new file format in David 4 was a good enough reason to upgrade (it's lightening fast) from 3. it saves me a lot of time.

The upgrade cost was then around $ 100.-

I look at it also as a way to support to the David team.

But the upgrade price now is $ 445.- (Growshape)

The actual price difference between 4 new and 5 new is $ 255.-

This is unusual. Normally, upgrades are less expense to reward faithful customers.

Dual camera is a very important upgrade feature requested by users for a long time, but it implies also investing in a second camera.

If the upgrade price remains high, I would probably prefer an upgrade at a lower price for single camera version, with an extra option for dual camera separately.

Ultimately, I would prefer a full upgrade at a lower cost, around $ 250.-

Just a thought.

Jeff
Panasonic GH4 4K with lens 12-35, Inogeni 4K to USB3 hdmi capture device, projectors: Acer K135/Acer K11/NEC V260X, Canon 60D, macro 60 mm, MagicLantern
Curiousjeff
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Geneva, Swizerland

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby micr0 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:49 pm

Curiousjeff wrote:David 5

I did not see any of the many "feature wish list" requested by users, like:

Lasso selection
Photoshop type eraser
"Undo" for the delete feature
Add to selection (Ctrl + selection tool)
Select the color to assign to a scan
ISOLATION function
etc...

And also "double contact pair selection" would be a great help when all other allignment methods fail.

Jeff


Don't forget the white light button :0

FWIW if all those things were added to David what would we have to look forward to?

Of those mentioned Undo and and Isolate or edit only and "active" scan while others are visible would my big two.
µ
micr0
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:54 pm
Location: NYC

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby micr0 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:17 pm

Curiousjeff wrote:Sven,

I hope I don't sound negative. I greatly look forward to improvements in David, but as a user, I need to see the improvements (quality /work flow) useful in my day to day work.

The new file format in David 4 was a good enough reason to upgrade (it's lightening fast) from 3. it saves me a lot of time.

The upgrade cost was then around $ 100.-

I look at it also as a way to support to the David team.

But the upgrade price now is $ 445.- (Growshape)

The actual price difference between 4 new and 5 new is $ 255.-

This is unusual. Normally, upgrades are less expense to reward faithful customers.

Dual camera is a very important upgrade feature requested by users for a long time, but it implies also investing in a second camera.

If the upgrade price remains high, I would probably prefer an upgrade at a lower price for single camera version, with an extra option for dual camera separately.

Ultimately, I would prefer a full upgrade at a lower cost, around $ 250.-

Just a thought.

Jeff


I Generally agree but with some qualifications. Things like bug fixing and code streamlining aren't something that should be represented in a cost (to the end user) to upgrade. New features are fair game. But is is up to the end user to decide for themselves If the new features are and improvement to their work and therefore value adding. For me the integrated duel camera support is enough for me to value the upgrade. The expense of another camera and lens is on my side of the equation not the David company's. Now as for the cost of the upgrade. I do have an issue with the upgrade price being 80% more than the difference in the cost of new licenses of the respective versions. I also believe as a matter of principle the upgrade price should be the difference in cost of new licenses of the two versions if not slightly less. I admit I have no idea what the economics behind the current pricing are but on face value it seems like kind of a slap in the face. Especially to a lot of users here who have participated here feel like we have personal investment (right or wrong) in David.
µ
micr0
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:54 pm
Location: NYC

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby pottersfriend » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:31 am

I also agree with most of what you have said. I also think for a small company (David) being bought out by a larger, much larger company (HP) then they should now be able to actually pass on some savings to their customers. Especially the early adopters and loyal people who made it all possible. I find the upgrade pricing a bit ridiculous considering the new infusion of funds. Of course, I'm not a business person so I don't know how this all works but it seems every time a company gets bought out the price for their products just goes up and up. I look forward to seeing what David will do in the future but my loyalty has limits and sometimes has to take a backseat to my paycheck and the contents of my wallet.
pottersfriend
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:49 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby hunkatibor2 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:57 pm

Hi Sven
Maybe I expect the best of the two-camera solution. Life is so screwed up in the Basler camera the finger. Spies Firewire connectors for printed circuit boards .This way I can not try the old camera .In today I can not get to the digitization, because the window is shown in red, I can not find a good setting, perhaps because it was so hot, and instead concentrate on the print.
Tibor :( :( :(
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
Humanti Calibration panel system and Alignmed&Two camera
hunkatibor2
 
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:50 pm

Curiousjeff wrote:Since David 5 does not support laser anymore, why is the "video grabber" still available ?Jeff

Hi Jeff,
You are right! We forgot to remove the Video Grabber.
The Image Grabber currently has a bug, doesn't work right. We'll try to repair it for 5.0 - if not, it'll be in 5.1.
Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:00 pm

Curiousjeff wrote:Sven, can you give us an exemple where David 5 really shines compared to David 4 ? Or did I miss something ?


New SL Patterns
The most obvious difference is when scanning glossy objects:
testscene.jpg
Test Scene - see how strong the reflections are!

result_david4.jpg
Result with DAVID4

result_david5.jpg
Exactly the same setup, with DAVID5 (one camera mode)

i think that's quite impressive!

Dual Camera
Scanning in STEREO mode gives higher accuracy. In an ideal world, mono would be the same. However in reality there are always small imprecisions, noise, etc. The main cause of problems is usually the projector. In STEREO, the projector's calibration, distortion and image quality is irrelevant, and scan results are more precise. The difference is more visible in difficult situations/surfaces than in easy situations.
In EXTENDED VIEW two cameras can see more than one, obviously, so when scanning an object all around, with two cameras in EXTENDED VIEW mode you will need fewer scans than with one cameras. In STEREO mode, however you may need more because STEREO captures only those surfaces that are seen by all three at the same time: camera1, projector, and camera2.

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:03 pm

@Curiousjeff
The waves on your scan results can have various causes. I don't know your camera and how well it fits to the projector.
Possible causes:
- Exposure time does not fit to projector frame rate
- bad exposure (saturation) of the camera
- flickering environment light
- bad filter settings in camera or projector
Please use "Quality" mode, it should minimize those waves.

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:05 pm

Curiousjeff wrote:How does "High dynamic range" work in David 5 ?

That's future work. The checkbox is disabled and it's there currently just for developers and for the people who translate the GUI.
The HDR checkbox will disappear in 5.0 and the function is planned to be implemented in 5.1 or 5.2.
Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:26 pm

About prices:
I can't really say much about pricing. Our sales team know what they do and always have reasonable sales concepts. Please understand those concepts focus on complete scanner kits like SLS-3, so of course there will be hardware upgrade kits for reasonable prices, and they will include the DAVID5 software upgrade. I know that prices are often different in different countries, depending on not only currency exchange rate, but also import/export customs, shipping costs (not for software upgrade of course), market situation in each country, etc... Even if we wanted to, we are not allowed by law to dictate end-user prices to our resellers.
DAVID5 is our biggest step forward since we started with SL, and I know how much work is in it. We have heard "your products are too cheap" much more often than "too expensive" - really! And we are still much less expensive than most competitors. But I understand that for some it may appear too expensive, maybe not for commercial users but for hobbyists... I'm sorry we can't satisfy everyone.
We don't force anyone to upgrade, all DAVID4 licenses will keep working with no time limit and keep making good scan results. However DAVID5 can really bring advantages which are worth the upgrade price for many customers, so I am confident that many users will be happy to upgrade eventually.

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Curiousjeff » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:40 am

Sven,

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and concerns.

I don't want to needlessly prolong the price discussion.

My final thoughts:

Difference between David 4 ($ 540) and David 5 ($ 695) is perfectly normal. I don't think anybody has a problem with that.

It's the upgrade price between 4 & 5 ($ 445) that has surprised me and others on the forum. That's 3X the price difference.

Please let "sales" know about our feelings on the forum......maybe they will make a special "early bird" upgrade price for your faithful users :D

Jeff
Panasonic GH4 4K with lens 12-35, Inogeni 4K to USB3 hdmi capture device, projectors: Acer K135/Acer K11/NEC V260X, Canon 60D, macro 60 mm, MagicLantern
Curiousjeff
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Geneva, Swizerland

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby mr_cg » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:10 pm

Some time ago i have decided to buy David Scanner as the price vs quality was quite attractive for me as private user.
I started with v3 kit and then upgraded the license to v4 for only 69€. This is really affordable and was also one of the main reason to decide for David Scanner.

Recent news on upgrade price to v5 and the cooperation with another big company makes me really concern about the future strategy for private users.
The price for the v5 upgrade is by far to expensive for me as private user. You should also think about the private users who still want to get updates (bugfix and improvements) but do not require the "big" improvements like support for two cameras.

You should provide some options for your privat users - who were supporting you since the beginning - to get still updates/upgrades for affordable price like from v3 to v4.
Idea could be:
* License limited to private use (lower price than comercial license)
* Seperate license for "2 camera" support. Upgrade license without "2 camera support" for lower price.

I really hope you will think about private users also for the future.
DAVID4 Pro v4.3.6 (64bit) - david-cam-3.1-m - IDS UEYE UI-1540-M - Canon EOS 600d (Canon Lens: EF-S 18-135 IS) - Acer K135i Projector + 37mm Close-Up Lens
mr_cg
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:31 am

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:55 am

Thank you for your comments! We take this feedback seriously. Sales team considers many options in order to make as many happy customers as possible.

:!: DAVID 5.0 is out! :!: Your beta installation should update automatically. Since the beta, we have fixed a few small bugs and updated GUI translations.
In the next days we will put more info on our website, and launch a newsletter.
http://www.david-3d.com/support/downloads

Happy scanning!
Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby gkrywusha » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:42 pm

Congrats on your launch of David 5! Just got the news from Growshapes as well.
gkrywusha
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:41 pm

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Oteck » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:10 pm

and the upgrade price is still $445....
Oteck
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:32 pm

PreviousNext

Return to DAVID Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests