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Working with scans as layers

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Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:52 am

Hello,

After working intensively with David over the last few weeks, there's one issue which can be greatly improved in my opinion.
The way it works now is that you can only select and 'clean' a visible scan.
You cannot have a visible scan without selecting it.

This creates a major problem if you have an overlapping between 2 scans, which is ok because it aligns more easily, but then to create the final fusion, you would like to use only 1 of the scans because the surface detail is better.
Here's an example:
Image
The green scan was taken from the side with SL, therefore details are not very good.
The purple scan was from the front:
Image

If I had to combine them the result will be worse.
But if I want to delete only this overlapping section like this:
Image

I have to memorize very carefully where the overlap ends, then hide the purple scan, select the parts on the green scan while trying to remember if I'm correct, then make the purple visible again, memorize where the selection is, hide the green scan to see if I'm about to delete too much (no undo button yet ;) ), then I can delete, or have to select again if I notice I'm going to create a hole.

I wish there was a way to make selection active only on selected scans (for example by clicking the check box which is now used only saving and removing scans).
This way I can see both scans while selecting only the one I would like to clean.

This would save me so many holes or imperfections in the models I scan, it's really a big problem with the software.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby Bobby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm

Yes - this is common challenge with ALL scanning software - not just DAVID. At my work we have $20,000 program that doesn't work as well as DAVID for these types of jobs. We should all count our blessings.

This situation requires human input because computer cannot 'know' what is good and what is bad data. If you have little history with scanning, then it can seem that Shape Fusion is not very good. This is not true! In fact, it is excellent - between power and easy to use. I would say it is even better than the very expensive programs in many ways.

I care not what system anyone has. Good scanning takes real work and good judgment. What you show in pictures requires both of these things.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby moog » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:05 am

surely it wouldn't be hard to make certain scans in the list "visible only" (ie: not selectable), then you could use the selection polygon as usual, but only parts of the scan you want would be deleted
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby Bobby » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:52 am

moog wrote:surely it wouldn't be hard to make certain scans in the list "visible only" (ie: not selectable), then you could use the selection polygon as usual, but only parts of the scan you want would be deleted


Yes of course you can! Toggle 'eye' icon on right upper list of scans - not the check box - the eye, to make scans visible and invisible from view. This is necessary when doing pair alignment, especially with manual turn table. Otherwise most recent scan is somewhere 'inside' the rest of the aligned scan data - you have to be able to get to it.

Also it is important to realize the ability to transform and rotate individual scans by holding down the control key after you have left clicked on one to make a selection. There you can spin it around to make 'common ground' between two scans more visible before selecting common points for coarse alignment. It is helpful to select the most recent scan from the list in the upper right of the screen, then hold control key down and drag it out of the stack.

Toggle off visibility of scans already aligned that do not need to be in the picture for aligning to new scans. This will reduce confusion and help to keep the screen clear for working. When it is time to fuse just turn them back on.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:49 pm

Hello Bobby,
You misunderstood my post and moog's post.

I want to be able to see all scans but to select polygons from only one (or any specific) scans.
You cannot do it with David now, and like moog said it shouldn't be hard to implement, any basic photo-editing tool that works with layers works this way.

So you have visible scan that you see, and you have an active scan which you can edit.
At the moment in David visible==active, and this situation makes work way less efficient and less user friendly than it could be.

Secondly,
It seems that your comments to my posts in this 'feature wish-list" forum are very defensive and taking David's side, explaining that other software is worse etc. etc.

I don't have any experience with anything but David, I'm not a professional, I'm just a medical science student who spent almost all the money I've had on this SLS kit and software.
This forum exists so people can comment and come up with ways to improve the software, and that's what I do.
David is an amazing tool, but like anything in life, it can be better.

I appreciate the response I get from Sven here and I contribute my 2 cents here by telling the difficulties I have with the software as a new user.

Your comment that "Good scanning takes real work and good judgment" doesn't have to do anything with the issue I'm talking about.
There's no logic in making life hard for yourself. The purpose is to make it easier.
I hope you understand now what I'm talking about.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby Bobby » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:31 pm

SeaBorne - I mean no offense. I misunderstood your feature request - English is not my first language and I sometimes miss key things :oops: Please accept apologies!

My comments about other softwares was to simply say. 'it's not as bad as some' - because this aspect of software from any vendor has been greatly simplified in the DAVID software compared to others that cost a lot more. Nothing more than that, in case you did not know it.

Your suggestion to have one scan active for trimming etc is brilliant and I would also like to have this as well.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:46 am

No hard feelings mate!
:)
It will be interesting to hear from David's staff how difficult such feature would be to implement.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby Sven » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:15 pm

How about this:
1. Make all scans visible that you need to see, like here the green and the blue one
2. With the Cleaning Tool, select what you want to select in the green scan. Some parts of the blue scan will be selected too (become red), ignore that
3. Look at the red areas on the green scan to make sure that's what you want to remove. If it helps, make the blue scan temporarily visible / invisible.
4. Make the blue scan invisible
5. Click the Delete button of Cleaning Tool. It will not touch the invisible scans even though they have red areas.

If I understand correctly, this is what you need?

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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:38 am

Hello Sven,

Yes you understood correctly.
However, it does delete red areas from invisible scans, otherwise there was no problem.

It was the first thing I tried and I was very surprised with the result, because it makes no sense.
Try it for yourself.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby Sven » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:17 pm

Hmmm here it does not.
I have two scans A and B, select an area, both get red regions. I make scan A invisible, then click Delete.
Then I make scan A visible again. I see that only scan B has become smaller.

Tested with version 3.7 and 3.8.
Also I see in the source code that DAVID removes only vertices from visible scans.

So there must be some misunderstanding... what is different?

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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:07 pm

I will try again in the evening.
But I remember clearly making red scans invisible, clicking delete and they were gone.
Very weird.

Let me come back to you after I try again.
If it doesn't work I will record my screen upload it to Youtube and send you a link to the video.
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Re: Working with scans as layers

Postby SeaBorneScanner » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:45 am

I guess you can call me crazy, because I have tried again today and it works like you suggested.
I can swear on my life there was some issue with it earlier.

So this is less of a problem now, but it is still a 'work around', and I think the possibility to do selection on specific scan while others are still visible is still important because you can actually see what you are doing.
It would be nice to see such feature in future versions if it is not hard to implement.
Thanks for your answer Sven.
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