Dear DAVID Community,

As you are probably aware, the entire DAVID company, team and product range has been integrated into HP Inc.
This forum is now read-only. Relevant content has been migrated to HP and merged into HP's Support Forums on November 1, 2016.

To start new discussions for 3D Scanning, please register and post your new topic at the HP Support Forums

Projector as a laser scanner

Questions, problems, comments and tips regarding the 3d scanning process.

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby hunkatibor2 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:03 pm

Hi
Walter
I do not want exclusion from the forum. If undesirable publication does not do it again. Knowledge of the competition does not think sin.
Tibor
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
Humanti Calibration panel system and Alignmed&Two camera
hunkatibor2
 
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:51 pm

WalterMo wrote:Tibor,

During all the time that you are with the DAVID forum you are scrolling through the www searching for rival products. And if you find another 3D scanner you immediately post it here.

Do you think that this is useful????? What is your aim? To show us how good you know the www? To show the DAVID owners these rival scanners? Or to lead DAVID users to these products?

I really don't know why our administrators are so liberal.

Walter


Hmm, sorry Walter:

DAVID3D sells cams. So, if anybody thinks to have found a better, maybe cheaper cam: Should he keep this as a secret to avoid conflicts with commercial interests?
DAVID3D sells a projector. So, if anybody thinks to have found a better, maybe cheaper one: Should he keep this as a secret to avoid conflicts with commercial interests?
DAVID3D sells lasers: So, if anybody thinks to have found a better, maybe cheaper one: Should he keep this as a secret to avoid conflicts with commercial interests?
DAVID3D sells sysemts: So, if anybody thinks to have found a better way, maybe using DAVID: Should he shut his mouth to allow selling of the conventional system?
If so, we could close most of the threads here. And I think it's the same decission concerning software discussions.

I think DAVID does not have to fear competition. Any product has to proove its quality in contrast to rivals which means you have to know rivals. DAVID can stand it.

Think Tibor simply shares his findings. The either point is that he wants to share knowledge.

This forum was always an important part of the product DAVID and its value were openminded guys. This forum was open enough to host MM_Alex's SL code - the very first opensourced SL code - at a time when DAVID was dealing with laserscanning only. Some of my work may have reduced some sellsrates too (Ee.g. some may have bought a projector instead of a laser at a time when DAVID3D only sold lasers - which is close to the topic) , maybe some bought one equipment instead of severals using mirrors. And also your Pro9001 harmed sellsrates of the DAVID cam.

IMO: The either thing that threatens commercial interests of DAVID3D is the fact that open minded guys, as Tibor, became a very rare thing here in the forum (as a part of the product) for this makes its quality drop down.
Visiting the references page of DAVID one can find many great companies. Where did they get their anchor to use DAVID? Where did they get a proove that DAVID can do their job? Anyone of those competent companies here giving something back to open minds? Not at all - for commercial interests! - Where did those very busy guys, asking a lot of questions here, went to?

Maybe it's another reason why you are doing your job, but well, much smaller, here on my side are some interests as well. There were times when I could have some influence on some features and this was of some benefit for my projects - but these times seem to be over now for quite some while.
That`s why I cann`t see some advantage posting stuff beyond the current level of DAVID - and sorry: A "support DAVID only"- praise forum is a bit boring.

Gunter
MagWeb
Moderator
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby WalterMo » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm

Gunter,

In my post above I had not spoken about cameras, projectors or lasers. I only had mentioned rival 3D scanners.

Walter
User avatar
WalterMo
Moderator
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Walter,

you didn't get the point.

Gunter
MagWeb
Moderator
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby WalterMo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:53 pm

Sorry Tibor,

Please excuse my too hard words of November 24th. I should have had chosen another way, means by PM, to ask you not to post a link to every new low-cost 3D scanner.

Walter

PS. I don't have written these lines because of Gunter's 2 posts above.
User avatar
WalterMo
Moderator
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Hello,

I really dont know these days still anyone use the laser scanner or everyone just moved to the SLS? (I am not a laser user)
There is a good idea on one of the Tibors link.
http://www.intricad.com/bin/main/products/triangles.php

I guess the David laser users can rotate their calibration panel by 90 degrees and with use of a turntable and vertical line instead of horizontal, they can have a faster scan.
but the question is: Can David calibrate a rotated panel? if yes then it is worth to try.

Just an idea.
Regards,
User avatar
argo
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:48 am

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby hunkatibor2 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:59 pm

Hi Walter
I'm not mad.
Do you have a story. Commissioned me to a state official institutions develop a simple cheap device scanned Museum item fast to perform. Of course, the software used David_Laser. I created a working prototype. I presented my orders in August during the operation. He said the opinion this is the best solution so far. 2014 starts with the great work you get money from the EU. Later on other channels I learned about.
http://richpoi.com/cikkek/infotech/4000-szecesszios-mutargyat-digitalizal-az-iparmuveszeti-muzeum.html
http://gsaarchivesandcollections.wordpress.com/2013/08/
http://www.partage-plus.eu/blog/
This is just to share my Forum because we can do anything if you happen to head over to the decisions.
Professional of the device for which the work done in a proper manner I see the strength. Real-time matching us to use David is not available.
Mattia opinion I would be very curious
Tibor
Image
Image
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
Humanti Calibration panel system and Alignmed&Two camera
hunkatibor2
 
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby Lunat1c » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:00 pm

I haven't been here for a while because of my daughter's health problem.
-Too much and unnecessary bashing on Walter. He's right, tibor's style doesn't become him. If these sharings were good intentioned, they should better be shared directly with Sven&Simon via PM.
-We're not the DAVID team, they are the ones who build the software.
-If your intention was to push the DAVID team so they build a 2 cameras 1 calibration panel quickly (and you know what everyone including simon&sven wants it), Dear Tibor I have to say, it's kind of a disrespectful way.
-Sven has already told that right now they're focused on the SDK, they're a small team, and we have to wait.

Hunkatibor likes walter,
Walter likes magweb,
Magweb sympathizes hunkatibor
Rock, paper, scissors

Walter does what he has to do (of course there might be some rules in a society), he bashes tibor,
Tibor shrinks because he admires walter,
Magweb bashes walter,
Walter likes magweb and he's the deep of a man, and remains silent.
But it doesn't mean he deserves this. He's so helpful, especially for tibor himself, and for nothing.

Ps: I like all of you.

Regards,
Mitsubishi xd 206u, logitech pro9000, acer 3820tg
User avatar
Lunat1c
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:37 am
Location: City: Antalya, Country: Turkey

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:01 pm

Lunat1c wrote:I haven't been here for a while because of my daughter's health problem.


Hello Lunat,
Nice to see you. and sorry to hear that. hope she is doing fine by now.

About the Problem you mentioned. I dont want to Interfere. but just as a ordinary member, i believe all of them some how are right.
I understand Walter's concerns about this community and the David. and i really appreciate him. he is really great asset of this community. and honestly without Walter i would not be here.
Gunter is also right to say here is an open mind forum (this is my guess and maybe i am wrong. and maybe there are some unwritten rules that i dont know). and he is also a great asset of here.
I think the way that Tibor introduces these links are not just fine. there could be some particular sections to share the ideas and compare the other softwares and hardwares. this could be really good for new users or new viewer (even old members) of this forum to find out, how strong and healthy is David.
and among all, there could some new ideas come out like the one i mentioned on above your post!

All of you here are just great.
Best Regards,
User avatar
argo
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:48 am

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby Sven » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:32 pm

Hi,

Sorry for my late reply. I have returned from holidays and fought my way through internal topics, then e-mails etc...

Thank you all for your opinions! I agree with most.

CONTENTS AND INNOVATIONS
Gunter is right, a support-only praise DAVID forum is boring. We were always happy about new ideas, special setups beyond standard DAVID. DAVID has grown with that. Thank you! In the first years, we were sometimes able to implement new Feature Wishes and upload a new version within 24 hours, and see users benefit from that immediately. That was great fun! Today for each new idea we must make sure that
- it does not confuse other users
- the GUI does not get overloaded
- it is easy to use
- it does not have any side effects on other functions
- it is tested thoroughly
- it gets translated in 10 languages
- it is explained in user manual - again, several languages - and the manual is not even complete now :(
- the time invested in it must be worth it, i.e. it should be helpful for more than 2-3 users...

But still some "Feature Wishes" ARE implemented, so please keep posting them. Sometimes it may however take some patience... I will try to be more present in that section and respond to all Wishes.
However I have learned to be careful with promises of what and when we can offer. The business has become too complex, too many projects... Better not promise anything...

I look especially into "Bug Report". However it was neglected in the last weeks (holidays, exhibition preparations...). Sorry for that. Give me a few more days...

3RD PARTY, "RIVALS"
We always wanted this to be a user forum about 3D topics, with focus on DAVID, but not restricted to DAVID. We have "3rd party" and "3d printing" sections. I think we all agree that discussions about 3rd party cameras, projectors etc. are very helpful, we would not want to forbid that. We never have. Not only some customers, but also the DAVID company benefits from that: User setups inspire us to design our own products (see improvements to SLS-1 --> SLS-2 coming soon). User reports help us chose which hardware we finally put into our scanner packages and shop. We have developed our own special DAVID-CAM-3-M and our special projector because no product on the market was perfectly suitable - If you find one, let us know...

About rival 3D scanners: DAVID does not have to fear this competition. Many scanners have their advantages. Until now, these topics have been very limited, and there was never a clear "winner" over DAVID in general, so we won't censor this. Topics like "DAVID vs. Nextengine" are great for this forum (especially as long as DAVID does not clearly lose ;-) We know that DAVID is very flexible, but not perfect for every customer, depending on requirements, we won't force them to use DAVID.

This "open mindedness" is visible to new guests here and proves them that they will get valid and objective (well maybe not 100% objective) information here. If we did not want that, we would also have to delete all "I have a problem with DAVID" threads and create a dream world of a perfect DAVID...
So it's good to make sure that competition does not take predominance in this forum (thanks @Walter and others) but for now I think it can remain as it was. I hate censorship in general (look at politics in some countries and in German history) so we delete as few posts as possible.

We (the DAVID team) will re-discuss about the forum. Maybe we will have to change the structure, maybe separate "standard support" - "scan results" - "beyond horizon setups" etc... Improve FAQ... Definitely we should invest more time here, and be more present. I'll do my best.

@all:
Please stay as open-minded, creative, helpful and friendly as you are! :D

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Hi Sven,

hope you had nice holidays and sorry about this trouble-restart here.
Thanks for clearing offical intensions.
I'm aware of the growing complexity each new added feature brings. Maybe it could be of some help to setup a group doing concrete work on certain tasks as writing manuals, giving suggestions about GUI implementation or simply testing not stable things. You could give alpha versions to experienced users - much rougher stuff than your clean betas.
Don´t know if managing such a group would be another burden, but maybe it would be worth a try...

Back to other things:
@ argo:
To calibrate a rotated corner you have to change the corner parameters in AdvancedSettings.
Guess you´ve a tuntable scanner in mind? This kind of scanner assumes a fixed and known angle between cam and laserplane (a turntable is only one possible option). DAVID laserscanning instead uses a different approach. It calculates a variable angle for each frame from the lines on the background planes using a fixed ratio corner to cam.
Maybe this old topic gives some insight:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2592
MagWeb
Moderator
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:10 pm

MagWeb wrote:To calibrate a rotated corner you have to change the corner parameters in AdvancedSettings.
Guess you´ve a tuntable scanner in mind?


Thank you Gunter,
I really need to be same as those times back that i could see all the aspects of the subject, before suggesting it.!!
I just missed an important thing for the above suggestion. which is while scanning with a vertical line and a turn table keeps moving, then David also needs to keep turning the painted object with same speed of turntable and paint new lines and add them to the previous scans.
The idea was a click and go, to scan whole 360 degrees with vertical line and using a turntable with no stop (same as the Tibor's link). but David is not made for this purpose.
sorry for this nonsense idea.

by the way i am not a laser user or even a fan of it.. the idea just comes out and thought it might be good for laser users.

Regards,
User avatar
argo
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:48 am

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:17 am

No, No...

that's no nonsense and maybe possible (one day):

There's already a feature to record a lasermotion (for planeless laserscanning with a motorized setup).
If this recorded motion is no motion but a not moved laserline one gets the calibration of a fixed laserplane.
Refering on this recorded single pose one should get partial data (no mesh but a line of measured points) for each single frame.
Now if laserscanning mode could add these data to Shapefusion automatically (as this is possible in SL mode) one could use a known motion (e.g. for a turntable: performed steps per image frame) to transpose this result to a right position.
Let's say a turntable performs a full round at 360 steps (just to keep it simple). Each step triggers a single image (in this case a single "scan"). The result would be 360 "point profiles" (Scan001 till Scan360) which are passed over to Shapefusion. Now the only thing that has to be done is to rotate each result: 360°- (360 steps/turn - Scannumber) and to build a mesh via Fusion.

Note: This is blank theory. Until now I never thought of passing a single frame result over to Shapefusion. Maybe isolated vertices are treated as outliers and filtered? Don't know (loading OBJs without faces in Shapefusion fails)... Don´t know if Shapefusion handles so many results... But this attempt seems to be interesting.

A turntable application lacks due to undercuts which can not be captured. Linear applications make sense using a 3 axis CNC for this will never get undercuts as well. The either interesting thing is to use this in combination with a motion tracking device (such as Kinect). Scanning with such devices is limited to a certain quality (which maybe enough for some interests) but they are quite good and made to track motions. What would be the result if I'd use this only to get the 3D location of my cam/laser combo and let DAVID do the capturing of the scene? This could be a cool freehand scanner.

An idea is an abstract thing. It is out of a real catagory. Sense instead is based on reality. Be shure: Ideas never can be nonsense!
MagWeb
Moderator
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:59 am

Gunter,

Your understanding of the concepts and logical analyzing are just great. i guess you must be a software engineer.
I can not follow you because my experience and knowledge about David and its structure is not same as yours.
But i believe you are right and one day it is possible to have this ability in David.
I like your detailed explanations. and enjoyed reading it. and thanks for giving me the confidence :wink:

Regards,
User avatar
argo
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:48 am

Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:33 am

argo wrote: i guess you must be a software engineer.

Just to keep things right:
NO, not al all.
Just some mind trying to get a glimpse of what is out of its bounding box.
MagWeb
Moderator
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm

PreviousNext

Return to 3D Laser Scanning

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron