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Projector as a laser scanner

Questions, problems, comments and tips regarding the 3d scanning process.

Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:21 pm

Hello,

This might sound crazy, but when something comes to mind it has to be thrown out!
from my bad english maybe i can not explain it why i am interested in such a way.
but could please some one tell me, is it possible to do this?
The mean by using the projector as a laser is projecting an animated file.

I have made a simple gif image(animated) to carry 26 blue lines from up to down pixel by pixel. and each line is about 1 pixel(is it thin?)
The background of the image should be black?

Image

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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby WalterMo » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:47 pm

Your idea will work for close by small objects, but it isn't brand-new. Gunter (MagWeb) has created it some time ago:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=552

If the object is more far away the laser is the better choice because its beam diverge less. It's light is coherent.

The background should be black and the one pixel wide line white.

Walter

PS. Maybe Gunter had made more tests with this method but I cannot find it in the depths of this forum.
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:38 pm

WalterMo wrote:it isn't brand-new. Gunter (MagWeb) has created it some time ago:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=552


Thanks Walter,
wow the idea belongs to 2008 by very Smart Gunter.
but i could not find how was the result and actually what happened to the idea.

my idea is about making 800*600 image size gif or avi file. which means it includes 600 images of 1 pixel wide lines.
but before that i need to make a sample to test. and thanks for suggesting the colors.

I will inform if any success and good results got here.
Shahram,
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:43 am

well, that made sense at that time...
Focused on a short distance a projector gives a finer line than a laser.
As Walter said a projector's beam expands in an wider angle than a laser. But if this angle fits to the optics of the cam....
Two further proplems: The line "jumps" from line to line. So its very hard to synchronize cam and projector. I did that via COM messages sent with each recieved frame to the app that painted the line.
Next: Laserscanning expects the projected line to be straight. A projected horizontal line of a projector isn*t. It is bowed ( in some direction) at the upper and lower edge. Only the middle line should be straight (ok this depends on the precision of the optics and cushion correction stuff).
Projector calibration in SL mode instead tries to find distortions....


But it works. I did my scan "Lionman" using this.
http://wiki.david-3d.com/user_page/lionman
Ha... just remembered: I did it with the MPro - the world's very first LED projector - I waited for its release... As time goes by...

EDIT:
oh, and there is allready a linescan app on my wikipages but the server seams to be down atm. I`ll provide the link later
EDIT2:
http://wiki.david-3d.com/magweb/downloads#linescan
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:05 pm

Thank you Gunter,
Great info on your wiki.
Here comes a question. is david able to process more than one line at a time? (for example : having 2 laser, one scans from top to middle and another one scans from bottom to middle at the same time)?!

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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:18 am

Hey, that's not my wiki - remember: anyone can register and put in some knowledge...

@
argo wrote:is david able to process more than one line

No, DAVID-laserscannig assumes that each lightened pixel was lightened using a single light-plane. All lightened pixels are calculated to 3D data using this assumption. There may be situations where are more than one image pixel in a vertical row of the cam image are lightend (in cases as using mirrors or pointing onto a rather "deep" object) but they have to share the same geometrical plane to be calculated right.

Against that, SL-scanning supports as many planes as your projector owns, comparing several frames...
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:24 am

MagWeb wrote:No,

Thanks Gunter for the reply.
The idea of using the projector as a laser scanner just gone away.
That would be great if david was able to process more than one line at a time.

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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby ShadowTail » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:44 am

David does support more than one line at a time.

Its called Structured Light.

Which is what you should use if you have a projector.
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby MagWeb » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:50 pm

ShadowTail wrote:David does support more than one line at a time.

Its called Structured Light.


As meant here:
MagWeb wrote:Against that, SL-scanning supports as many planes as your projector owns, comparing several frames...

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. :oops:
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby hunkatibor2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:23 pm

Hi MagWeb
In theory, you could detect more structured mode laser plane?
Tibor
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
Humanti Calibration panel system and Alignmed&Two camera
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby Lunat1c » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:47 pm

You know what, conflict is good.
The forum has been kindled! It was so silent and boring.
Thank you Argo! for putting controversial cases...

Best regards,
Mitsubishi xd 206u, logitech pro9000, acer 3820tg
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby argo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:50 am

Lunat1c wrote:You know what, conflict is good.
The forum has been kindled! It was so silent and boring.
Thank you Argo! for putting controversial cases...

Thank you body :)
I believe for having perfect 3d scans, we need to understand how the system works for both software and hardware.
If there are 2 equal hardwares (e.g 1 for me and 1 for Sven) by sure the results by Sven will be the perfect one compare to mine. because he knows the concepts of system and i don't.

There are 3 kinds of people on this forum:
1- Professional members like the owners, moderators, and few members (not more than number of fingers and most of them are old members of here)
2-The guys like us, no matter old or new, who still trying to find the solution and understand the system. (I see Tibor is here from 2008 and still has issues)
3-The guests "The most number of people here". either they are members whom are not loged in or they are people who are interested to buy the David. in both cases when i see a post on calibration section is having more than 2000 views, i realize they have the same issue.

The most active and helpful moderator here is Walter. and he just contributes on topics that he knows the answer and not everything.
The other moderators either are busy with their life and jobs or they are tired of answering same questions that has been said before.!!
The owners are busy in real world and they can not to be active here too much!

They have put a demo of david on the site for us to try. so we try and the questions and issues come out.
But here is so difficult to find the answers which already has been said before. and the wiki is not sufficient.

I hate it when i open the board index of david forum and still seeing my name everywhere. i feel stupidity :oops:
There are lot of questions and issues in my head but i need to slow the posting down. and that is why i was agree to have a chat room here.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5862

Sorry for my bad English,
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby WalterMo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:29 pm

The main thing which causes issues is the different kind of hardware. Only a few people who are posting here on the forum are using the DAVID SL kit or the kit for laser scanning.

DAVID is a flexible low-cost scan system and therefore it's of advantage that different lasers, projectors, cameras and set-ups can be used. But not all self-chosen components are suitable for DAVID.

Of course not all people are able to buy the (expensive) components from the DAVID shop. Or it's not possible to import them. E.g. lasers into the USA because of strict safety regulations. (You can buy an automatic gun, but not an unverified 5 mW line laser).

So everyone is trying to find the things in his country. The result is that on the other hand it's difficult to give good tips or a high guarantee for successful scanning.

Regarding the moderators: We are working for free and I think I am the one and only who is retired. Means the others have to do their daily regular occupation. The most creative one is Gunter (MagWeb). For me it's more or less a transfer of knowledge of the experience of my work life. For Gunter most of the things were new ground. So I admire his short settling-in period in the deeper regions of 3D scanning and the technical knowledge of the hardware. A lot of his ideas and suggestions were echoed by the programmers of DAVID and implemented in new versions.

Walter
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby hunkatibor2 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:35 pm

Hi argo Waltermo
I read your entry. Sad reality of the forum is dying. We do not get answers to difficult problems. I understand the farmer busy schedule. If David continues to wither. That's my opinion because I see the competition transgression.
Tibor
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:159981
http://www.intricad.com/bin/main/products/triangles.php

Sometime in the maximum value of the Forum has been of assistance, today it disappeared, except Magweb to Waltermo whom I am very grateful thank you on behalf of everyone
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
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Re: Projector as a laser scanner

Postby WalterMo » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:27 am

Tibor,

During all the time that you are with the DAVID forum you are scrolling through the www searching for rival products. And if you find another 3D scanner you immediately post it here.

Do you think that this is useful????? What is your aim? To show us how good you know the www? To show the DAVID owners these rival scanners? Or to lead DAVID users to these products?

I really don't know why our administrators are so liberal.

Walter
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