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Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Questions, problems, comments and tips regarding the 3d scanning process.

Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:07 am

Hi!

I'm using DAVID professional 2 to scan clay sculptures to be used as maquettes for illustrations, and I'm getting somewhat pleasing results, but I feel like I"m not achieving the level of detail I need and a fine enough stitching/fuse to fully capture the essence of the sculpture.

Any recommendations? My setup is below. (and I can post more pictures I just hit the limit of 3 so figured this would be an adequate starting series)

Thanks very much for any input!

wide setup.JPG

Logitech PRO 9000 - 30fps - 24BIT RGB - 640x480 (RGB24) - I stack it on books to get it at the best height for the sculpture then tape it down firmly
green 650 nm laser -- I don't think it's focusable but not sure - I have it strapped to a piece of cardboard that I move down in one single pass per angle
Scale: 60 mm

all angles arranged.jpg

This is all the angles I scanned arranged in one file -- I turn the sculpture on a Lazy Susan bearing in between each angle, so it rotates along one vertical axis.

fuse.jpg

Then this is one angle on the final fuse -- as I said it's getting pretty close, but I feel it's missing enough detail to get a cleaner fuse and to capture the original sculpt completely.
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:13 am

Also here's closer detail on the original sculpt for comparison:

sculpture w laser.JPG
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
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Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby WalterMo » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:09 pm

Hi,
I am sure there will be some potential to increase the scan quality. I would do the following:
1. Mount the camera on a very stable support. To glue the camera on some books isn't the best way. It's important that there is absolutely no movement between sculpture and camera.
2. Increase the camera resolution to 800x600.
3. Focus both, the laser (if possible) and the camera sharp to the surface of the sculpture, not to the calibration corner walls. That means disable auto focus of the Pro9000, put the object in front of the corner, adjust the cam focus, remove the sculpture and then calibrate the camera.
4. Increase the intersection angle. It's the angle between camera and laser. Means mount the laser at a higher position.
5. Move the laser line very slowly. Better one time slowly than a few times fast.
6. Best is to scan with a motor. A good start is to use Mattia's kitchen timer:
viewtopic.php?p=2016#p2016
7. If it is possible lay a black piece of cloth on the wooden board of the sculpture. This will avoid potential reflexions from the board to the sculpture.
8. To simplify scanning and alignment you can put the sculpture on a turntable. It's not necessary that the table is driven by a motor. If you would draw marks, e.g. every 45° on the table disc you can tell DAVID later on the used angle for the single scans. In Shape Fusion, Alignment around Y-axis it's a great help for you if DAVID does the job.

Walter

PS. By the way, a green laser has a wavelength of 532nm.
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:54 am

Excellent!

Thank you very much for your feedback. I will definitely upscale the resolution and try the cook timer -- brilliant solution.

I have a couple of follow-up questions, if anyone would care to chime in.

First -- below is the lazy susan hardware I spin my models on -- does it matter how the sculpture rests on this hardware for ensuring crisp y-axis alignment?

lazy susan hardware.JPG


Also, below are two pictures of my laser line projected at a wall -- one closer -- but both were taken at about 50cm distance.

laser line smudge at edge.jpg
close on laser smudge.jpg


What is the ideal distance -- is it 20cm or does it depend on the laser manufacturer?

Can you make out the "smudge" along the edge of the laser? This is not the texture of the wall -- it is an artifact of the laser. Would this complicate scanning?

Lastly, I understand DAVID "looks" for the center of the line, as long as I black out the table base and base of the sculpture -- looking at this laser -- do you think I would get a significant benefit from using a focusable laser?

Thanks again for any feedback.

Christopher
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby WalterMo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:21 am

Regarding the turntable: I think you have already placed your models in the center of the lazy susan, the same is OK for DAVID. The rotation axis should be precisely vertical. Here you can find some hints for the alignment:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4699&p=23362&hilit
But use the method I had posted on 27 July.

Regarding the line laser: The fixed focus lasers are adjusted by the producer for a distance of about 2m or infinite. Therefore it's much better to use a focusable line laser. Here I have compared the line width of different lasers:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=300

Nearly every (affordable) laser has a bit "smudge" along its line. Important is what DAVID „sees“ during scanning. Means the line must be adjusted by the camera settings like here, thin, contrasty and clear:
http://www.david-laserscanner.com/wiki/ ... r_scanning

Walter
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:25 pm

Walter,

Thanks very much for your input, much appreciated.

Best Regards,

Christopher
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
Christopher
 
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:11 pm

I mounted my laser to a kitchen timer, switched to 800x600, 30fps, 24Bit camera settings, as well as increased the intersection angle to 40 degrees and made sure my back ground was at 90 degrees, and that the camera is focused to the surface of the sculpture.

Here is a screen capture of one of the tests from the new setup, and what I did, as per the "beginner's mistakes" article, is I turned INTERPOLATION, SMOOTHING, AVERAGE -- all down to zero, so I could get a good look at the integrity of the scan.

Looking at this image -- can you tell what may be causing all this noise? I understand there are many factors contributing to the scan quality, but just wondering if there is something specific denoted by the image quality here?

test scan no smoothing interp.jpg


I've tried making many different adjustments in the SETTINGS panel -- below are approx. settings for the above scan -- each time trying to get a thin, clear, bright line for the laser, but each time there is extensive noise. Are there ideal settings in the Logitech panel?

logitech settings screen shot.JPG


One thing that I thought worked well with this scan is that having the laser on the kitchen timer really works well to produce a full, consistent pass of the object's surface.
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
Christopher
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby WalterMo » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:24 am

I think the laser line wasn't sufficiently powerful adjusted. So increase brightness, gain or extend the camera exposure time, but not longer than 1/15 sec.
And regarding the cam frame rate: Set it to 15fps at 800 x 600. 30 fps is not really possible with the Pro9000. If it is shown somewhere in a spreadsheet it is "artificially" treated. The newer Logitech camera drivers often don't enable to adjust the exposure time directly in seconds. So use the exposure slider of the DAVID software.

Set a value of 1-3 for the interpolation. Maybe a bit more. It's OK for scanning. Use as before Classic DAVID Setup and not Motorized DAVID Setup. Sorry if this was self-evidently for you.

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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby spikejr5342 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Christopher wrote:I've tried making many different adjustments in the SETTINGS panel -- below are approx. settings for the above scan -- each time trying to get a thin, clear, bright line for the laser, but each time there is extensive noise. Are there ideal settings in the Logitech panel?


One thing I had an issue with was using my cam settings and getting the same window as you have there. Which I found out is the "wrong" one to use. Logitech decided to use its own software to control the webcam, thus not allowing David to use it correctly. Go to this post and read about it and install the older drivers if you choose. It helped my scan quality so I'm sure it can help you as well. It just seems to give you more control over what is going on within the camera.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2271

Josh
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:44 pm

Thank you for the replies -- I will look at these details.
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
Christopher
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:19 am

Well that seemed to work really well:

- I uninstalled the new Logitech drivers and installed the old version
- I also re-measured the SCALE on the background -- turns out it wasn't 60mm it was 211mm! I'm not sure what a huge difference this makes

Here's how the different angles came out, all with INTERPOLATION, SMOOTHING, etc. set to "0":

Danny 15 angles arranged.jpg


I was really pleased with this since I got a nce even, smooth surface and I felt each slice is an exact rendering of the sculpture, which is the main thing I wanted -- to be able to basically "take a picture" of the sculpture, but without the lens distortion of the camera

And then here's the fuse:

This was a little trickier -- I had to play around with it in Shapefusion quite a bit to get al the angles together and you can see with my scan angle I was not able to get a scan of the top of the head or underneath the chin. How is that possible if we're trying to keep it rotating around the y axis?

All told I'm wondering what I could improve upon from here? Could I make the scans smoother? Or at some point do I face the limitations of my equipment?
Attachments
Danny fuse triptych.jpg
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
Christopher
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby spikejr5342 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Christopher wrote:Well that seemed to work really well:

This was a little trickier -- I had to play around with it in Shapefusion quite a bit to get al the angles together and you can see with my scan angle I was not able to get a scan of the top of the head or underneath the chin. How is that possible if we're trying to keep it rotating around the y axis?

All told I'm wondering what I could improve upon from here?


This is about the area where I am with my scans as well. I get tiny imperfections in my actual scan, and then they show up in the fuse and make it not as precise as I would like it.

Personally, I don't feel that you absolutely need to keep it rotating around the y-axis in order for it to mesh correctly. Whenever I have needed to scan the top and bottom of an object, I just carefully flip it over and try to get it into the exact same distance from the camera as before. For the object I tried this on (one of those office tape dispensers) it worked very well. I'm open to others' suggestions if there is another way though. When I had to mesh these scans, I had to change the parameters to "free" so it would rotate however it wanted in order to make it fit.

From here, there is no set process to improve your scans. You can play around SLIGHTLY with the settings that you have, change only one thing at a time and do another scan, and see how it helps/negates from the one you just did. Everyone's setup is somewhat different so it helps to find the settings that work well with your specific system.

Christopher wrote:Could I make the scans smoother? Or at some point do I face the limitations of my equipment?


You can make the scans smoother, but then yes you will hit the limitations eventually. Try to come up with a way to rotate the laser even slower than you are already. The slower that it takes for the laser to move around the object, the finer the detail will be picked up. Depending on how far away you are from the object, the cooking timer solution might not be the best one. They seem to stutter slightly from one tick to the next, so if you are far away from a tall object, what seems like a minuscule stutter at the timer might be equivalent to 1/16" at the object - reducing the quality. These are all some big assumptions that I'm making about the setup you have, so if I'm wrong I apologize, but they are just some good things to keep in mind.

Another thing that you can do to improve the quality is to scan only certain sections of the object at a time. This way you can get better detail in each area, rather than OK detail in the whole object at once. For example, this is what I mean:
(Picture from hal's tutorial of scanning without panels if you're interested - http://www.david-laserscanner.com/wiki/ ... els_by_hal)

Image

The colors are the scans that he did, which he mentioned were 65 single scans of the object.

Here's some more of hal's amazing quality work. See what he did with the Superman figure? Individual object scans of a larger object give better quality.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=681&p=23609

Hopefully these things will come in handy for you in your scans, and if you find something that helps a lot, don't be afraid to share! ....Or at least PM me, because I'm new to this and learning everything as well :) Good Luck

Josh
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Re: Here's my SETUP: Recommendations for better fuse/detail?

Postby Christopher » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks a lot for sharing your insights -- it's definitely very helpful to get confirmation that fusing the mesh is indeed a pretty tricky operation. I'll be sure to pass along anything I discover.
Dell Inspiron 600m / Intel Pentium 1.60 GHz, 512MB RAM / Mobility Radeon 9000 Graphics Card
Windows XP Professional Version 2002 SP3
DAVID Version 2.6.3
Logitech PRO 9000 / x32_Drivers-only_12.10.1110.0
Green Line Laser (Non-focusable)
Christopher
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:23 pm


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