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DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby Jodinsky » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:50 pm

at the moment the vat is fixed, but i study for a little slide movement about 3/4mm. the maximal size is 102x77x150mm.
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby BigPines » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:25 am

I have just read through this entire thread. Fascinating.

So what is the current state of affairs? Although very impressive, WalterMo's printer seems fairly expensive (both in construction and in resin costs). How much do you have invested so far Walter? Comparably, a Fused Deposition Modeling (FDM) printer seems to be substantially cheaper. For instance, the Phoenix (http://www.phoenix3dprinter.com/) is under $400. Would I be better off with a RepRap? What are the quality and reliability trade-offs? Strength trade-offs? Other issues to consider?

I want to get into printing soon but I want to make the right choice. There seems to be a plethora of options currently available and I'd like to get educated. Any feedback is appreciated.

Mike
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby WalterMo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:18 am

Mike,
You have read through this thread and have certainly noticed that I have bought a lot of things for my printer from a DIY market. Other components were made by my lathe or auctioned on ebay (but all was unused). So the costs were much less than that of a comparable (in print quality) B9 printer:
http://dawsondistributions.com/

I would say the costs of my Wizard1 were about half the B9Creator. Even as I have chosen an (expensive) HD projector with a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels, specially to have options for further improvements.

So what to suggest? It's difficult.
It depends on the sizes of your prints, the resolution (DLP is the best), your possibility and skill to build a printer by yourself and very important, the amount of money you intend to invest.
And last but not least: The type of printer: DLP or an extruder one.
The Phoenix Ez3D is really a very low-cost printer. Even with a heated build platform. Incredible!
Didn't know this machine before. Have you seen some of its prints?

Of course, extruder printers are cheaper because of the not existing video projector. At that time when I started to think about a printer, it was quite clear for me to build a DLP machine because I was interested in this modern technology.


Walter


PS. Light sensitive resin costs in the USA 127 $ per kg:
http://www.b9c.com/home
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby BigPines » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:18 am

Thanks Walter. Good things to consider.

I like the idea of the DLP quality which is definitely superior but there is a lot going for the cheaper printers coming out.

I have only seen a couple of prints from the Phoenix Ez3D:

Image
Image

It is difficult to tell the quality until they ship enough units and the reviews start to come in.

I am also VERY interested in the RigidBot due to the large printable sizes. Again, very few print examples available yet: http://inventapart.com/rigidbot.php

At these prices, it may be worth a gamble.

Mike
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby DBS » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:23 pm

Hi all,

I have read all the theme, and have a question:
I guess you accepted by default, that everyone pixel from the projector resolution is equal to the dot with 0,1 mm diameter. That have to give 80 x 60 mm (X / Y) maximum size of the printed object, from a projector with native resolution of 800 x 600 points.

What if I decide with the same projector to print an object with 160 x 120 mm size? That have to means every one pixel is 0.2 mm... And even more: 400 x 300 mm if dot size is 0.5 mm... Am I right?

I know very well that 0.5 mm is a very big dot (let say a "big mistake" in fine objects)... But if I have to print a large object, such a "big mistake" wouldn't be so "big" in fact.

I'll be very happy to read different opinions :)

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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby WalterMo » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:02 pm

DBS wrote:What if I decide with the same projector to print an object with 160 x 120 mm size? That have to means every one pixel is 0.2 mm... And even more: 400 x 300 mm if dot size is 0.5 mm... Am I right?

Yes, you are right. But it's only possible (and in theory) to print such large X/Y areas by a video projector which comes for a reasonable price. The light intensity of the projected area will decrease quadratically in relation to the distance. Means the resin cannot be sufficiently cured.

The advantage of a DLP printer over other kinds of print techniques is its high resolution. So why to use a projector with only 800 x 600 pixels? Are there at all any light powerful devices with, let's say, 3200 lumens at this low resolution available?
I think the min. resolution for a DLP printer should be 1024 x 768 pixels. Better of course is a HD one with 1920 x 1080 (like mine).
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby DBS » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:02 pm

Thank you Walter,

I have NO experience, but I think that it is not necessary to increase the distance between the projector and the object, its enough just to change the lenses... In your case instead or lens with F=300 I can to use such with F=150 (I guess). Then the image size have to be double, but the distance and the light intensity have to stay the same...

Thous are just my assumptions...
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby WalterMo » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:50 pm

Regarding light intensity per square cm it's the same if you increase the distance or if you use another lens.

E.g. the lamp in my projector has 280W. And this power must be distributed across the illuminated area. Regardless of how....
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby DBS » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:25 am

Unfortunatelly you are right Walter :(

That means for big objects the best choice stays the hot nozzle.... But I hate hot things, so the last method is stereolithography.... Form1 is not suitable for large objects too (it is hard to focus the laser beam on different distances). Just if the mirror is far enough from the object, but than the laser power have to be very serious (and dangerous too)...
My be I'll made such one:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a ... phy-at-Ho/

It is very slow, but can print very large and very small objects without problem, and it is easiest to build and to manage (print).
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby WalterMo » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:58 am

What do you think of this DLP laser printer?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fs ... ost-high-q

Its build volume is 178 mm x 178 mm x 229 mm. I think it's one of the best „low-cost“ printers.

But be aware that none of the photo curing resins currently available will get close to the mechanical properties of engineering polymers such as ABS.
This last sentence was simply copied from here (written by Rabs1):
http://b9creator.com/support/?minglefor ... stid-14833
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby DBS » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:18 pm

Thank you again Walter,

It is a good offer, but for proffesionals... I'm only home (hobby) user, and this is exclusively expensive for me. If I found someone that want to invest, I'll prefere this one:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/23 ... 3d-printer

This is a DLP printer, but with huge print size: 280x210 mm. For me the light source is a projector with resolution SXGA+ (1400*1050) but with double sized "print" area. Because the price of such Projectors start from $2900, I think that the native resolution of the projector is smaller. Even if they use SXGA+ projector, they realized my idea from the previous post ;)

IF "The light intensity of the projected area will decrease quadratically", with 3000 ANSI lunens brightness, they have to "print" with just 750 lumens. Because this couldn't be true, then the light intensity have to fall with just 20% to max 25%, not more.

Last question:

May be you have made tests, or just have info, what would happend if a DLP projector with native resolution 1024*768 and brightnes (for example) 2700 ANSI lumens is set to work on 1600*1200 dpi ??? Is the light intensity the same or decrease, and what should be the quality of printing???


I want to ask you not to take my post as a nagging. :oops: I just know that you are the most informed and with the most experience here, so I'm looking for your opinion. :roll:

Thank you in advance
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby WalterMo » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:07 pm

No no, I don't see it as nagging, you can bombard me with questions. :)

Only the native resolution of a projector is relevant for a DLP printer. Each pixel of the built-in LCD display or the DLP chip „knows“ only two states: 100% on or 100% off.

If a higher resolution should be generated then it is necessary to interpolate. That means gray scaling is necessary to do. But then it's not possible to cure the resin sufficiently, each resin voxel needs 100% light power. The print quality would be bad.
Also read these posts here, Febr. 19th and 20th:
http://b9creator.com/support/?minglefor ... stid-14888

What you do not believe: If you double the distance of a projector to a wall then the projected area will be four times bigger. And the light intensity is only 1/4. This is a quadratic relation. Check it yourself!
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The Stanford Lucy

Postby WalterMo » Fri May 30, 2014 11:49 am

After a break caused by a problem with my printer I started with a new print object. It's the Stanford's Lucy.
The origin was scanned by people from the Stanford University in 1998:
https://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/ ... n-lab.html

In principle they used the same 'Stanford Large Statue Scanner' as which was used one year later for the Michelangelo Project:
https://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/mich/

Their Lucy scan consists of 47 single scans. The reconstruction has 14 million vertices and 28 million triangles.

My print file was decimated to 571000 vertices and 1.1 million triangles (45.7 MB). It was downloaded from MakerBot Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:41939/#files

The print consists of 1581 layers à 105 µm. So the figurine is (including pedestal) 166 mm tall.
Used resin: Spot-HT. Exposure time per layer: 15 sec.


Walter

PS. On the close up photo of her right foot we can clearly see the single layers.
Attachments
Lucy_5X_vom Druck_reduced.jpg
The print
Lucy's scan.jpg
The scan
Detail rechter Fuß 2X_2.jpg
Close up of the right foot: Scan and print
Colorized3x.jpg
The print, colorized by Johanna
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby Francois » Fri May 30, 2014 1:06 pm

Really nice, Walter
One has to be patient to get such result; 6 & 1/2 hours of print time if I understand correctly.
But that's worth it !
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Re: DIY 3D Printer -- Low Cost & High Resolution

Postby jantje » Fri May 30, 2014 1:25 pm

Amazing quality and detail.
You keep on amazing me.
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