Dear DAVID Community,

As you are probably aware, the entire DAVID company, team and product range has been integrated into HP Inc.
This forum is now read-only. Relevant content has been migrated to HP and merged into HP's Support Forums on November 1, 2016.

To start new discussions for 3D Scanning, please register and post your new topic at the HP Support Forums

DAVID 5 Beta

Discussions about latest DAVID developments, beta versions...

FPS issue

Postby hal » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:15 am

Hello dear David team and dear Sven,
I've tried a little the new r.5 and it seems promising: I like it! :D

After the first try, I've found something I don't understand: I have a dual camera setup with a David camera working at 25 fps and an TheImagingSource usb3 working at 60 fps.
By default David 5 read both, but the 60 fps one works at 15 fps (its exposure value moved automatically to 1/15). If I try to set it at 60, the camera stop to work after few seconds. Both cameras have their onw latest drivers installed.

Is taht an issue or a feautre needed to works correctly with these cameras togheter? In the online manual it is wrote that could be related to USB connection bandwidth... so setting a fps limit could solve? I ask that because I still don't understand why the faster camera is moved to 15 fps instead 30 or 25, like the other camera. And why David set it like that every time I run the software?

Thanks,
Mattia

p.s.: the new SL patterns have alterned bigger lines, right? at the first try, I thought my projector has a wrong resolution ratio, because similar effect happened time ago, when the resolution of the projector was wrong and some lines were "fused" together :wink:
PC: DELL Alienware 17, Intel I7-4710MQ, 32 Gb Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M290X 4GB.
SO: Win 8.1 64Bit.
CAMs: USB 3.0 CMOS B/N (1280x960, 60 fps).
LENS: 12 mm.
PROJECTOR: DAVID SLS1 ACER K11.
User avatar
hal
Moderator
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:08 pm
Location: Cavaria con Premezzo (VA), Italy.

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi Mattia,
Your problem sounds like a USB bandwidth problem.
DAVID allows you to set frate rate and exposure time for both cameras as you like.
The exposure should not change automatically to 1/15, and you should be able to change it as you like.
Here it works fine with two different DAVID cams. I'll try it with 1 DAVID and 1 ImagingSource camera when I have time.

Please try the "Frame Rate Limit" switch in DAVID5.
Also you could try to use different USB ports.

PS: Our new patterns are indeed different. There are no more black and white stripes, only sine waves. In some patterns, there seems to be "errors" / "steps" in the sine waves, but those are deliberate :D
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:38 pm

Hello,

We have just released DAVID 5.0.3, which includes bug fixes about calibration and white balancing, and textures in Shapefusion. Please use AutoUpdate or Download to update.
The fixed calibration issue relates to the distortions that some of you have seen. Also "calibration failed" when using a "negative corner" set-up had a bug. :oops:

However the problems "calibration failed" that some of you had with very dark images or bad view on the calibration panel etc. I'm afraid need to be solved on your side, by improving the set-up.
We will keep looking and testing calibration, if there is a bug in DAVID5 we will fix it.

If your calibration fails and you think your set-up is good, please post a screen shot, that will help us reproduce the problem. Thanks!

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby hal » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Thanks dear Sven,
I plan to test the 5.0.3 release tomorrow.
In meantime I will try different usb ports and configurations. But thanks to confirm that it is bandwidth problem: that solved my doubts.
Hope soon to share more opinions on your latest "baby".
Have nice afternoon,
Mattia
User avatar
hal
Moderator
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:08 pm
Location: Cavaria con Premezzo (VA), Italy.

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby micr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:35 pm

I tried a number of different exposure settings (Using both the camera aperture and the projector brightness, to the point of over and under exposure), I tried different camera angles relative to the projector. I tried different angles of the camera and projector relative to the calibration panels. I tried different distances to the calibration panels for both the camera and the projector. After 1.5hr I ran out of time and never got a successful calibration with David 5. David 4 almost never failed to calibrate. David 4 may be more tolerant but I starting to wonder if there may be some other problem. Perhaps something didn't install correctly or a missing software component or incompatibility?
µ
micr0
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:54 pm
Location: NYC

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:38 pm

@micr0:
whoops yes there seems to be some other problem...
Does the CAMERA calibration fail (at the beginning, before the stripe pattern sequence is projected) or does the PROJECTOR calibration fail (after the stripe pattern sequence)?
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby micr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:41 pm

Sven wrote:@micr0:
whoops yes there seems to be some other problem...
Does the CAMERA calibration fail (at the beginning, before the stripe pattern sequence is projected) or does the PROJECTOR calibration fail (after the stripe pattern sequence)?


It fails after the stripe sequence.
µ
micr0
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:54 pm
Location: NYC

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:42 pm

I just see, micr0, you are using a negative corner, right? There indeed was a bug in DAVID5, please try again with 5.0.3.
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby micr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:49 pm

Sven wrote:I just see, micr0, you are using a negative corner, right? There indeed was a bug in DAVID5, please try again with 5.0.3.


Ok, Thanks.

I"m not at the shop till Friday so I'll report back after I can get time to try it out.
µ
micr0
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:54 pm
Location: NYC

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby hunkatibor2 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Hi Sven
Image
Image
Tibor :D :D :D
Intel Xeon E5410 2.33GHZ 16GB RAM Windows 7 64bit David 4.5.0
2 Basler A622F camera 2 Tamron Asfirical AF 28-80mm lense
LG DLP Projector PF1500G Canon D40 Tokina 17-70mm 1:2.8-4,5
Humanti Calibration panel system and Alignmed&Two camera
hunkatibor2
 
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:17 am

Hi Mattia,

Fortunately I also have an ImagingSource camera, so I could do a quick test. I have connected it together with one DAVID camera.
It works fine. I get full frame rate from both cameras and I can change the Exposure Time separately, with no crashes. (If you haven't seen: you can set format and properties of each camera when moving your mouse over the little preview images at the right side, there are the buttons).

PS: When you get it working and do stereo tests: You have two DIFFERENT cameras, that's not recommended but it will work of course. There is a difference in the algorithm which camera is "first" and "second". Try to connect camera A first, then B, and do stereo scans. Then connect camera B first and then A, and scan again. The scan result will be different. To be honest I haven't tested that constellation much yet.
(In "Extended View" the result should be identical because there both cameras make separate scans.)

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby hal » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:19 pm

Dear Sven, thanks to check it.

I've tried and you are right. I've found also a problem here with the USB devices: seems there is something going wrong and avery time the crash happen in different conditions. But 1 time on 10 everything works for some time. So the issue is fully related to my USB system here that working bad. I will try on different computer soon. Also one camera is the usb2, the other is an usb3.

When I was able to scan without camera crashes, I've done a first tests. Angle between cameras at 34°, first cam at 19° with projector, second cam at 15° with projector.

2016-07-28_14-01-49.png
Extended mode

2016-07-28_14-02-05.png

Here we can see that in Extended mode the 2 different scans appear. They shouldn't be overlapped? That result means my calibration isn't enough strong?

2016-07-28_14-03-10.png
Stereo Mode in YELLOW

2016-07-28_14-03-02.png

2016-07-28_14-02-54.png

Here is visible that the yellow scan, took via Stereo mode, is placed in the middle. That sounds like an average scan between camera A and camera B

This make me confused... I thought that in Extended mode I should scan more surface of my object and loose little precision, and with Stereo mode I can scan only the surfaces saw from both camera in order to get best precision. But these 3 different scan positions in the XYZ space are talking to me that is something wrong in my process.
That is related to the differences between cameras? or their optics? or the low calibration angle?

Thanks and best regards,
Mattia
User avatar
hal
Moderator
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:08 pm
Location: Cavaria con Premezzo (VA), Italy.

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby avogra » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:58 pm

I tried the new stereo mode with two Logitech cams and I'm very impressed. With David 4 I had to clean edges on most scans which is now completely gone. I also like all those small changes like the merge of setup and calibration, ability to dictate the names of the scans. I didn't try it yet, but scan sequence looks very handy. Great job!!
One thing I'm missing: the texturing tab has vanished with no mention in the release notes. So is there no more manual texturing or is it yet to come? My first test gave me quite mediocre textures which were too dark and tinted. It also did texturing by projecting a sequence of R G and B. Having a colour cam, David 4 just projected a white image. Will this be possible again?
Some more questions about stereo mode:
For small objects, I have trouble to get the right cam close enough to the projector. In my setup, the body of projector and cam are in between the lens of the projector and the lens of the cam. Due to the reduced angle the cam would have to come even closer than before.
What I thought about: Does it make any sense to have one cam to the left and the second cam above the projector or is this total nonsense?

Cheers, Alex
Projector: Acer K11 with Achromat f=400mm | Cameras: 2x Logitech 9000 Pro with custom C-Mount body | Lenses: 1x Computar M1214-MP, 1x Computar M5018-MP, 1x Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon CNG 1.4/12
avogra
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:06 am

Hi Mattia,

hal wrote:This make me confused... I thought that in Extended mode I should scan more surface of my object and loose little precision, and with Stereo mode I can scan only the surfaces saw from both camera in order to get best precision. But these 3 different scan positions in the XYZ space are talking to me that is something wrong in my process.
That is related to the differences between cameras? or their optics? or the low calibration angle?


I assume that your PROJECTOR calibration was not precise. What model do you have? Maybe there is some temperature drift? Please let it run warm before calibration-
Please try the same with "Quality" mode. There the scans should overlap very well.

Please keep in mind that hardware is never perfect, so when you zoom in more and more, eventually you will see differences. Both those differences should not be more than the accuracy we have (something around 0.1% of scan size, depending on hardware). Did you measure the distance, how much is it?

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

Re: DAVID 5 Beta

Postby Sven » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:18 am

Hi Alex,

Thanks for your good questions and ideas!

avogra wrote:I tried the new stereo mode with two Logitech cams and I'm very impressed. With David 4 I had to clean edges on most scans which is now completely gone. I also like all those small changes like the merge of setup and calibration, ability to dictate the names of the scans. I didn't try it yet, but scan sequence looks very handy. Great job!!
Thanks :D

avogra wrote:One thing I'm missing: the texturing tab has vanished with no mention in the release notes. So is there no more manual texturing or is it yet to come?
Textures are taken automatically during the scan with "Auto Grab Texture" option. That is the fastest and most comfortable solution, and it makes sure that the texture fits perfectly on the scan.
In your application, why do you need to grab the texture separately?

avogra wrote:My first test gave me quite mediocre textures which were too dark and tinted.
That must have been before version 5.0.3, where we had to fix a bug related to that. :oops: So please try 5.0.3.
Otherwise did you maybe change camera settings or exposure after calibration?
If not, then there may still be a bug in DAVID5. In that case please try to reproduce the problem and let me know.

avogra wrote:It also did texturing by projecting a sequence of R G and B. Having a colour cam, David 4 just projected a white image. Will this be possible again?
Yes, sorry. We are working on it.

avogra wrote:Some more questions about stereo mode: For small objects, I have trouble to get the right cam close enough to the projector. In my setup, the body of projector and cam are in between the lens of the projector and the lens of the cam. Due to the reduced angle the cam would have to come even closer than before.
In that case, you should use a larger camera angle.

avogra wrote:What I thought about: Does it make any sense to have one cam to the left and the second cam above the projector or is this total nonsense?
Interesting idea! Please give it a try. You must then use pattern orientation "both".
Another option could be to place one camera at the top left of the projector, and the other camera at the top right of the projector. So both cameras would be diagonal above the projector. I'd say that is promising!

Sven
User avatar
Sven
DAVID Developer
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Location: Braunschweig, Germany

PreviousNext

Return to DAVID Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest