Dear DAVID Community,

As you are probably aware, the entire DAVID company, team and product range has been integrated into HP Inc.
This forum is now read-only. Relevant content has been migrated to HP and merged into HP's Support Forums on November 1, 2016.

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Restructuring announcement.

Discussions about latest DAVID developments, beta versions...

Restructuring announcement.

Postby Datto » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:20 am

I got an email today (DAVID News --- Structured Changes --- New Products --- Price Increase)

What is unclear in the newsletter (or maybe I missed something) is how software updates will be handled. Will users still be getting updates to the software through this website, or will we have to deal with middlemen?
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby micr0 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:50 am

I got the same email and it didn't occur to me that I would have to go through a reseller to upgrade to David 4. I already hate the reseller model of software distribution. And that has been reinforced by 2 out of 3 (in my experience) David resellers here in the US being horrible to deal with as well as having wide difference in prices. I understand Davids customer service concerns but with a product like David the will be a relatively low volume part of any resellers inventory, does anyone really believe they will have the technical expertise to support the product (or the incentive)?

Hoping for the best.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby WalterMo » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:33 am

As far as I know will software updates still be available on this website:
http://www.david-3d.com/de/support/downloads

Other ways, e.g. by middlemen would be not reasonable.
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby MagWeb » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:29 pm

Maybe I'm a fossil but I'm still running DAVID with a PC hardware based license.
Where do I get a license file in case that I buy a new machine or have to replace certain hardware components? Any machine might crash (as mine did a few months ago).

My point of view of how this new structure might change the way this forum works:
With the new sales structure "support" became some commercial criteria. I guess that a new DAVIDIAN will buy DAVID where he thinks to get the best after sales support. Means: Resellers will keep their know how as their secrets for they aren't interested in giving their knowledge to a competitor. I've to state: Against the fact that resellers sell DAVID for quite a while now, I never met some of those guys here in the forum.
Through the years I tried to give support as my spare time allowed. I did that as a volunteer having in mind that any problem that could be solved via the forum would save time for the developer team to do their either job (to develop). Maybe this was a strategy to get this or that feature a little earlier done.
Now if resellers have the task to support customers and I give support via the forum: I only help the resellers now (people I don't know) without any direct effect to the development.
As a reseller one is interested in getting a product which is easy to sell with little needs to spend time on support. A pure commercial point of view isn't interested in experiments or "complicated" features. Now when only resellers are customers of DAVID its development will have to fit to those needs...

Many things to think about, maybe I'm pessimistic.... but I think this is much more than a change in a sales structure only: It will affect this forum and DAVIDs further way.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby MagWeb » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:20 pm

This reseller already offers DAVID4 with prices:

http://www.3dmensionals.de/cat/index/sCategory/86
delivery: 20-30 days
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby micr0 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:27 pm

Gunter,
I work with a number of applications that are sold only through resellers with mixed results. On the one hand if David had an employee or product specialist whose job it was to be present in the forum to answer questions and participate, then that might actually work out better. Also the argument can be made that a resell may actually have a strong financial incentive to participate here in the forums as that is like free marketing of their shop. Being helpful here can convince people interested in buying that they will be taken care of by that reseller if that reseller is here, helpful, and has a reputation to maintain. Overall that is the best case scenario, and one can hope that that is the way it turns out. However in my experience it doesn't always. I work with a number of engineering applications that are sold and serviced by the reseller model and some companies/resellers/forums are great, others are ghost towns.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Sven » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:08 pm

Hello everyone,

Updates:
Software updates within the same major version will be free, as before. You can download them from our website, or use the auto-update in DAVID.
(However in the current version 4.1, auto-update won't work, so you will have to update to 4.2 manually, coming soon.)

Upgrades:
Major Upgrades (e.g. from 3 to 4) are available for a low price. Just purchase an Upgrade Code from one of our resellers.
Note: All who purchased an SLS-2 with DAVID3 later than 1. Dec. 2014, will be contacted and will receive a free Upgrade to v.4!

Direct sales:
We have decided to stop direct sales because the amount of orders and support request were growing too much. We are offering workshops for our resellers to train them for tech support. That works quite well, we have several resellers who really know DAVID. Those resellers get marked as "Certified" resellers.

On the one hand if David had an employee or product specialist whose job it was to be present in the forum to answer questions and participate, then that might actually work out better.

That would be me. :oops: Sorry I wasn't present much in the last months. Too much work and also a long common cold... Now that tech. support e-mails and calls are much less, and some other projects are through, I'm confident to have a little more time for the forum.
But please understand that I can't be online every day and can't always reply quickly. And I would like to focus on "complicated" tech questions which other users can't answer.
(And questions like "my laser is broken" or "i have deleted my USB key" should go to your dealer.)

I'm now browsing through last weeks' posts to see where my help is needed...

Best
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby don.key » Sun May 10, 2015 10:26 pm

Hello Sven,

Seems like it became very hard to obtain a plain David Software license, most resellers prefer to sell SLS or starter kits.

What is the situation with resellers that sell David 3.0 now (For example https://www.igo3d.com/en/david-lasersca ... ion-3.html)

Is that entitled to free V4 upgrade?

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Sven » Tue May 12, 2015 6:43 pm

Please contact your dealer about that. For all DAVID3 USB keys sold after Dec. 1, 2014, we offer free Upgrades to v4. We have recently sent Upgrade Codes to those resellers.
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby don.key » Fri May 29, 2015 10:43 am

Hi Sven,

This is not what your resellers say: We have finally decided to purchase David SLS-2 and did so last week. The box was delivered this Tuesday with David 3 included.

We have asked reseller for upgrade to V4 and where told that we are not entitled for free upgrade because that offer only applies for SLS-2 sold between December 2014 and February 2015, everyone who purchase SLS-2 after February 2015 has to pay extra for V4. I called your HQ and was told the same thing on the phone, in addition to that I was told that David 4 is "for rotary table only". Even if this is the case, I think all new developments will go into D4 and not D3 in future so I would like to hear clear public statement from David here:

Do people who buy your new SLS-2 today with V3 software get free upgrade to V4 or do they need to shell out additional upgrade fee?

If they need to pay it would be quite ad novum. I have not met such rules until now, usually when I buy new product from some company, I expect it to come with actual version of software.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby don.key » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:23 pm

Update from my side:

Now I was contacted by the distributor and provided with V4 upgrade codes. So the end is good, but it was quite a bit of confusion on all sides.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Sven » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:12 am

Hi Don.key,

I'm sorry about the confusion. Of course you are right:

All SLS-2 sold today (since December) should include DAVID4. For some SLS-2 from stock which still have DAVID3, we offer free Upgrades. But I assume those are all sold by now.

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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Datto » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:20 pm

Ugh! I was afraid this sort of thing will happen. I dread trying to go through a retailer for upgrades to software I bought from David, and not from them. Why would a retailer want to bother with some legacy user when he could more profitably spend his time selling entire scanning outfits? This, however seems to be the upgrade path from David 3 to David 4 if I'm not mistaken. (Please let me be mistaken, please let there be a direct upgrade path :shock: )

Niche developers disregard their installed base at great risk. I hope this wrongheaded policy will not be the end of David :(
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Datto » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:25 pm

WalterMo wrote:As far as I know will software updates still be available on this website:
http://www.david-3d.com/de/support/downloads

Other ways, e.g. by middlemen would be not reasonable.



Walter, the files can be downloaded from the site, but activation codes seem to be available from middlemen. What is the upgrade path? At what cost? who knows.
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Re: Restructuring announcement.

Postby Datto » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:37 pm

Datto wrote:
WalterMo wrote:As far as I know will software updates still be available on this website:
http://www.david-3d.com/de/support/downloads

Other ways, e.g. by middlemen would be not reasonable.



Walter, the files can be downloaded from the site, but activation codes seem to be available from middlemen. What is the upgrade path? At what cost? who knows.



Okay, I found the upgrade path. If it works as advertised, it shouldn't be too bad.
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