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What projector works with the David Cam?

Problems, solutions and discussion about scanning with a video projector and stripe patterns.

What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:30 pm

I've been using the unmodified webcam (Logitech pro9000) and projector (Acer K11) for scanning, and I'm ready to upgrade to a David Cam. I'm afraid if I buy the camera, I may still have the problem where the camera has to be closer to the object. Since I like scanning larger objects (1m sections of cars and aligning them together), that makes it impossible to set up the rig with the hardware I have.

How can I modify the projector I have so I can use it with the Logitech now, and with the David Cam when I purchase it?

And can the same modification work for both cameras?

I haven't had luck searching the forum so I apologize if I missed it. Most users are scanning smaller objects, and I need to scan larger so I am uncomfortable buying lenses since the recommendations are for smaller scale scanning.

Thanks!
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:16 am

- In choosing a camera to scan the most important things you should consider are:

when we are talking about the resolution of a camera ,it means :
for example a " 1600 x 1200 resolution " and focusing to a 160 mm 120 mm
1600 / 160 = 10 and it means david can detect x,y,z values of 10 points for each 1mm

a " 1600 x 1200 resolution " and focusing to a 1600 mm 1200 mm
1600 / 1600 = 1 and it means david can detect x,y,z values of 1 point for each 1mm

However according to the algorithm of each software , the space between 2 points can fill by extra points.

- To scan a large object and by having a wide focus , another important thing is your data projector and its resolution like the camera

By having information about them you can choose the right options to scan.

Good luck
NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:28 am

In addition we can use some tricks to scan large objects with more details by using only 1 megapixel camera.
One of them is scanning a part using multiple calibration panels:
we can use large calibration panels Where the object has not important details and smaller calibration panels for detailed portions.
But it is very important to have precise calibration panels to have a precise alignment."I recommend to use spherical objects around or on the object. you can remove them from scanning results after aligning scans "

NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:03 am

Thank you Narmella. Although your answer is making my tiny brain hurt.

I understand the second reply in that scanning the same object at different distances with different calibrations can give more detail where needed. I have don't this.

I understand the theory of your first reply, but I don't know how to put it into practice. When I look at the native resolution of my Acer K11, it is 858x600. I use my webcam at it's default setting of 800x600. These values are very close. But the camera must be twice the distance closer to the calibration screen in order to fill the camera.

I assume this tells me I have non-matching optics. And I am afraid I don't have the knowledge to improve my situation. If I try to calibrate to scan larger objects, my camera and projector are too far apart to attach to the same rig.

Is there a way to solve this dilemma with my current setup? I would like to use what I have to impress my employer so I can use his money to buy the David cam. But I need help to get my optics to match.

Also, if I buy the David cam-m-3 will I have the same optics problem?

Thanks,
Toffer
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:46 am

Hi Toffer,

You can scan large objects only by having a large calibration panel , your webcam (Logitech pro9000) and your projector (Acer K11),
Go ahead and try it.
You will get better results if you scan objects by having a darker ambient light , using native resolution of your data projector and setting a good exposure for your webcam.

And about positioning scanner around the object : Just make sure your live view image is sharp and not blurred .

Having a nice camera like david cam lets you to have a good exposure setting and it speed up your scanning process (FPS RATE ) and a nice zooming ( It has a nice lens).
Let's go step by step.
I'm waiting for your results.

NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:54 am

I have made larger calibration panels, but my rig isn't large enough to accommodate the increasing distance of the webcam from the Projector. See the photo. I don't know what to do about this.
Attachments
Ratio problem.jpg
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:09 pm

Install your web cam and projector like JDM Dyno has installed .
Take a look here : http://forum.david-3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6258

I attached calibration pattern sizes "15 - 30 - 45 - 60 - 90 - 120 - 180 - 240 - 360 - 480 - 960 - 1440 " in DWG and DXF format .
Use 960 or 1440 to make your large calibration panel.

CALIB.rar
(88.76 KiB) Downloaded 180 times


NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:05 am

However standard working range of david laser scanner is good to scanning large objects like cars.
It gives us closer looks with high details.
I mean something like this:
Kolb-scans1.png
Some scans after aligning

Kolb-mesh1.png
Final part


NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
گشتاور صنعت تبریز
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:06 am

Narmella,
As you can see in the picture, My scans are fairly large. I've done this twice and both cars are over 250 scans. I haven't finished processing either of them because of the time required. If I scanned as small as your picture, I think I would have to cry:( This is only my experiment, not my career)
Granted, these cars were scanned with a primesense sensor and each requires individual fusing and cleanup, the David scans might auto-align and be cleaner from the get-go.

With primesense I scan with different settings for small detailed areas like headlights vs. large undetailed areas like door, trunk, hood etc.. I know that I can scan cars with David at a long setting then recalibrate closer for details.

I'm going to use a larger calib panel that you sent and build my right angles today. Thanks for following! I'll post once I have progress to show. I have acquired a large telescope tripod and am welding up the rail. 1.0m wide!
Attachments
300SL Scans.jpg
Can you say "Post-processing nightmare?"
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
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Toffer
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:08 pm

Hi Toffer

It's really nice.
Now as you wrote, It's time to scan same car with a large calibration panel.
You will get You need to use a better cam with low noises and sharper images to get best and detailed scans.

Please notice that :
Coat the car with a nice coating spray. Take a look here.
Be careful about sharpness of images of live view in david laser scanner " Blurred images will give us very poor scans and you can't have a nice alignment . If you get such results , please cut those portions "
Don't forget to use global fine registration alignment after all.

Good luck
NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
گشتاور صنعت تبریز
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NARMELLA
 
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:27 am

So I was able to successfully scan the entire car with a 480mm calibration. Success!
I kept the scanner at approx. 2m away for each scan. I was able to capture approx. 1m sections.
Here is a photo of the fusion with measurements taken for confirmation. It was very close to perfect!
Attachments
Scan w measurements.jpg
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
User avatar
Toffer
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby NARMELLA » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:05 am

congratulation,
Well done..! :shock:

NARMELLA
Data projector : NEC VE 281
Camera(s) : Canon eos 600D (3x)
Software : Lets scan 2.5 + David laser scanner 3.9
گشتاور صنعت تبریز
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NARMELLA
 
Posts: 354
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Artisan S » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:12 pm

Great scan even greater car.......did you use any spraying (sacrilidge) on the Merc?

Greats, Ed.
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Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby Toffer » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:57 pm

I used a spray on wax from Stoner called "Speed Bead". Wiped off as soon as I was done scanning the same day.
It dried to a dull finish. Other spray waxes I tried didn't dry as well.
Clevo laptop with 16mb ram
Intel Core i7
Nvidia GeForce GTX770M

Acer K11 and Logitec Pro9000
Ostec MC500 Microcope camera and Computar M1214-MP2 lens
User avatar
Toffer
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Re: What projector works with the David Cam?

Postby JDM Dyno » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:28 pm

looking really good Christopher!
hows the MC500 camera working out? was going to get one but found 2 DFK 42BUC03's cheep so got them, any problems with it? what resolution, frame rate you using?

cheers johnathan
Camera's: 2 x DFK 42BUC03 Duel Camera,
c615 modified with Computar megapixel lens
lenses: 2 x Pentax 12mm, 2 x Computar 8mm
Optoma ML300 Projector
Turntable

www.jdm-dyno.co.uk
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